SPEC Clutch Revisited

[sneitzel]

So I have my car back from the transmission shop.
I had the SPEC Stage 2 setup with Al flywheel that has been sitting in the garage for 2+ years installed along with the transmission rebuild and completely new clutch hydraulics. The hydraulic setup came complete and was "pre-bled".

I only have about 50 miles on everything right now but there are a couple of things.

There is a VERY strong vibration coming through the clutch pedal. It speeds up and slows down with RPMs. If I push in the pedal about and inch it goes away. The new clutch is also very rough when it engages. Right now, there is no such thing as easily letting off the clutch to start moving, you have to give it some revs or it will shake the car apart.

This is the 4th clutch I have had in the car (Original for 75K, SPEC stage 2 for <10K, Stock replacement for 32K) and I have never felt that vibration before. I have also never had a clutch engage so harshly.

Both the trans shop and SPEC say give it some time and let everything break in. The trans shop is blaming the harshness on the Stage 2.

I'm not convinced.

Am I imagining things?
What else can I have them check?

[ConElite]

I went through 2 spec clutches in about 4 months. I HATE SPEC. I called them asking if they can refund my money, They said give it time. I did, And I mean it makes the car pretty much undriveable. Shakes the entire car and the shifter moves violently. You have to let the clutch out slowly and almost stall the car to get it to work ok.

I called SPEC about 100 miles later (250+miles total) and they said I had to of installed it wrong and they are not responsible. 2 clutchs, 3 months of aggrivation and hate for driving my car, and I threw away both clutches and got myself an LS7/LS2 setup and never been happier.

Soft as butter compared to the insanely stiff clutch of SPEC.

I had the Stage 1 both times.

Im 98% positive its not going to go away, and all its going to do is rip apart your engine mounts and possibly damage your trans.

[sneitzel]

I didn't have this problem the first time I had the Stage 2 installed. It worked great. It just wore down to the rivets within 10K miles.

They replaced everything the 1st time for $100 and since I had those brand new parts sitting there in the garage I thought I'd give them another try.

Kind of regretting it now...

[Jeff_in_Atl]

I went through 2 spec clutches in about 4 months. I HATE SPEC. I called them asking if they can refund my money, They said give it time. I did, And I mean it makes the car pretty much undriveable. Shakes the entire car and the shifter moves violently. You have to let the clutch out slowly and almost stall the car to get it to work ok.

I called SPEC about 100 miles later (250+miles total) and they said I had to of installed it wrong and they are not responsible. 2 clutchs, 3 months of aggrivation and hate for driving my car, and I threw away both clutches and got myself an LS7/LS2 setup and never been happier.

Soft as butter compared to the insanely stiff clutch of SPEC.

I had the Stage 1 both times.

Im 98% positive its not going to go away, and all its going to do is rip apart your engine mounts and possibly damage your trans.

I had the same problem with the SPEC stage 2. POS. They wouldn't refund my money so I got them to swap it for a stage 1. By that time I had a SLP in in it and it worked perfectly. I gave the new stage 1 clutch with the car. I was really affriad that if I left the stage 2 in the car it would cause me to have a lot of dental problems.

[MN6WS6]

My SPEC II has never given me any issues. I even tow with my WS6 and no problems. Nitrous passes, daily driving, never a single hiccup out of the SPEC.

[raroZ28]

I've never had a problem with SPEC. I've had a stage 1 in my Conquest, a stage 2 in my racing conquest, a Stage 3 in my camaro, and now a stage 1.

I couldn't be happier. I've never had a single issue, not even with the stage 3. It was very streetable, and for how hard it grabbed it lasted me a pretty long time.

Eddie, I could have SWORN that when you took out the other SPEC and put in the LS7 clutch, you replaced a lot of other components with it. If you did, then it's not fair, because something else that you replaced could have been the cause. To get so many bad clutches is just not likely.

I'd say SPEC is 95% positive and 5% negative. Personally, I question most of the haters. I'm sure most of the guys here are experience. I know Jeff and Eddie can both wrench, but most of the other guys hating on it make me wonder whether they knew what the hell they were doing or not.

If I read your post right, you just put in an al flywheel and SPEC 2 and you only have 50 miles on it? If so, it's going to be rough. My SPEC 1 took about 350 miles before it was almost perfect, and after that it just got smoother and smoother everyday.

The vibration from the clutch pedal is caused by the design of the transmission. Most pull clutches are like this, mine has been that way since I got the car and it had the stock clutch. You will always get a slight grinding noise from the trans. That's the TO bearing on the fork. The TO bearing is held in by a clip so when the clutch is disengaged the vibrations cause a noise which will resonate to the pedal causing a vibration. When I rest my foot on the pedal, it stops the vibration, but it's usually not even bad enough for me to notice.

If it only has 50 miles like I think, then yes, the cars gonna shake like hell when you take off. It's all new stuff, let it break in.

Also, I've never had a stage 2 in my Z28, but in my Conquest, it felt BETTER than stock. It was the most amazing clutch I've ever felt as far as grab and driveability.

Also, whenever you let a shop do work it's always hard to know the cause of something because you don't know everything that went on during the install. Maybe they messed something up, maybe they did something slightly wrong. You'll never know cause they'll never tell you.

Could be a faulty clutch, could be faulty installation. It's going to be tough to tell at this point. Give it a couple hundred miles.

[ConElite]

Negative. Prior to my SPEC I changed my master and slave and did my drill mod.

[raroZ28]

Negative. Prior to my SPEC I changed my master and slave and did my drill mod.

In this thread you mention having an issue even after the LS7 install.
http://www.f-body.com/forum/showthread.php?t=21041

Then here you mention installing the LS7 clutch AND a new flywheel, as well as using a new method to bleed your system.
http://www.f-body.com/forum/showthread.php?t=20386

I'll bet it was a mixture of slightly failing hydraulics (The slave in the first thread), and a bad flywheel.

I dunno man. I wouldn't bash SPEC UNLESS you did everything you did before the LS7 install (new FW, etc...), and the SPEC worked like crap. Too many other variables. I don't think the SPEC got a fair shot in your case.

[ConElite]

Only reason I had a leaking slave after the LS7 was bc I got a remote bleeder. Not due to the clutch. When I installed the second SPEC Clutch, it was a nightmare. I talked to SPEC about 3 or 4 times and pretty much every time they questioned my ability to install the clutch. They would not refund or send me a replacement if I left a deposit. No give at all. and I quote, "Sir, well due to the incorroect installation you have done, We are not going to go ahead and replace it, sorry."


After I dropped the trans and removed the remote bleeder, I have not has one single issue with it. No sticking pedal or anything.

Both SPEC clutches were so hard, that the 20 minute commute to work would cause my toes to be numb due to it being so hard. Seems like a 3 out of 10 ratio of SPEC clutches being good it seems.

[sneitzel]

I want to believe Raro. Trust me, for the sake of my wallet I hope you are right.

I have recounted my previous experience with SPEC on this board before, but will summarize it again.

At about 75K miles the TO bearing was making noise in my car so I had a trans shop install a SPEC stage 2 setup complete with a new SPEC Al flywheel. Initially, it worked just as yours apparently does. Great. It was smooth, and gripped like nobody's business. FF to about a year later and aprox. 10K miles. It feels like the trans is slipping. I take the car in to a different trans shop and they inform me my clutch is shot. It is worn down to the rivets and has scored both the PP and the flywheel. I have everything replaced with stock parts.

After many discussions about warranty etc. with SPEC I send the parts back to them for evaluation and they say it's normal wear. We have more discussions and I point out it's only 10K mi. on the parts, talk to a couple of supervisors, and eventually SPEC agrees to send me a completely new setup for $100. Those parts have been sitting in the box in my garage for about 3 years.

FF to my current problem, I think the TO bearing is going again (another 30K mi.) so I decide to give SPEC another shot and have the clutch etc. replaced one again. It turns out to be internal problems with the trans so I have to have that rebuilt as well as replacing the hydraulics. Now, I wonder if that (the SPEC clutch) was a good decision.

I guess my problem is, I just spent $2600+ (actually more if you include the cost of the original SPEC parts) to have things fixed and right now my car drives like sh**. I'm broke and I'm afraid I made a bad decision.

I will give it some more miles and hope things settle down. I just wonder why my 1st SEPC stage 2 was so smooth and this one is completely different.

By the way, on the pedal vibration, I know what you mean about the normal vibrations from the stock setup. This is far beyond that. MUCH more violent. When I got to work this morning (about an 8 mile/20 minute drive in street traffic) my left foot felt a little tingly/numb. Kind of like your hands do after using an orbital sander or a hand held air hammer.

Is that normal?

[raroZ28]

No, that isn't normal.

Something is very wrong.

[ConElite]

When I got to work this morning (about an 8 mile/20 minute drive in street traffic) my left foot felt a little tingly/numb.

exactly what i used to experience. I hear SPEC is just like that, hit or miss. Seems as if the PP and Clutch plates are not balenced right.

[raroZ28]

exactly what i used to experience. I hear SPEC is just like that, hit or miss. Seems as if the PP and Clutch plates are not balenced right.

The PP is valeo. Same as any PP you'd get in another kit.

I'm convinced that your issue was with your flywheel.

[Jeff_in_Atl]

The PP is valeo. Same as any PP you'd get in another kit.

I'm convinced that your issue was with your flywheel.

I don't think so. I think it is the clutch disc. The Spec clutch disc I had had a .010 taper in thickness from one side to the other. That means when the pressure plate is clamped down that the fingers will also have a .010 taper. Now spin the flywheel/clutch/pp and the throw out bearing will wobble causing the clutch pedal to move up and down as it wobbles. Mine did it too.

The clutch disc needs to be absolutely parallel (no taper). When I took the disc out you could see the scrubbing on the thicker part and the never touched section on the thinner section. Eventually it will wear the high spot off until it become parallel. When it does that it will get better. The question is how long will it take to get there. Mine was in for a couple of weeks and it had a long way to go.

I think it is pretty poor quality control on Specs part to allow a disc that far out of parallel to pass inspection and get shipped out. If you get one that is parallel you will probably be OK. If you don't you are screwed.

I also think that for some reason the T56 transmission is less tolerant than other transmissions to imperfections like this. Maybe the span between bearings is so large it causes a flexing of the shaft. Maybe the aluminum cases flexes enough to cause the gears to separate a little. I don't know. Other transmission like front wheel drives are smaller and can overcome this defect in the disc more easily. That is why they are less of a problem in other cars.

If you take that disc out I would sure like to see a measurement of it's thickness across the face.

[raroZ28]

I don't think so. I think it is the clutch disc.

He got more than one clutch disc. What are the odds that they're all bad? I guess there is a slim chance that he got repeat bogus discs, but it's not very probable.