thinking about trying the 4.10 ratio

[Craig 94 TA GT]

Yes, I've been trying to say what Joe is saying...
Let me clarify once more then...maybe I'm confused at what you're trying to say, Kevin. Are you saying that the number you get as a trap speed is the precise MPH when you cross the finish line?

[Joe 1320]

Originally posted by fastTA
reach their peak acceleration right at the traps.

Yes in that instance. I was actually speaking more of other events that occur other than acceleration. Like deceleration within the traps. When I was saying there could be a 7 mph difference in the traps, I am taking into account that two cars
can reach the exact same ET after leaving at almost the exact same time and have significantly different speeds in the traps. One car might already have sufferend a loss of ignition while the other keeps accelerating. Even if both cars crossed the win line at the almost same instant in time at almost the same velocity, one car being on the accelerator, one being on the brake and/or chute, there will often be a significant difference in posted speed. You see cars decelerate at a faster rate as your road speed increases. So an acceleraration in the traps may be only 1.5 Gs. There may be 4Gs negative on deceleration. Alot can happen in 66 feet at 320 MPH. Anyway, this stuff is great debate.... can't beat experimenting though. Someone should give us a grant to go and do some real world testing on our own.

[Injuneer]

Craig..... you need to go back and reread what everyone is saying.... fastTA, Joe1320 and you are all saying the exact same thing. Unfortunately, one of you is attempting to make the issue far more complex than it has to be, with references to high tech concepts and multi-syllable words, throwing in gratuitous insults along the way, and the other is being very sloppy in what he reads. Only Joe seems to have the presence of mind to keep it all SIMPLE and ACCURATE.

You are ALL saying that the average speed over the last 66-feet is the distance between the two beams, divided by the elapsed time. The result is an average velocity over the 66-ft distance in ft/sec, which can easilly be converted to miles/hour.

Craig.... look at what fastTA said.... he is quibbling over the difference between "average" and "averaged" as Joe points out. And he is pointing out that there is no way for the track to actually measure true/absolute velocity at the exact finish line... you always need to do a "differential" calculation, and that by definition produces an "average" not an absolute value. Just go back and reread what he said, attempting to ignore the flames.

Joe:

I agree with your statement "Absolutely except in cases where you are dealing with less than expected parameters".... but if you think about it, the car isn't pulling 0.20 G's if you are on the brakes. See... now I am quibbling, but hopefully not being insulting.

fastTA:

To continue the quibble....

because they are so precisely geared to reach their peak acceleration right at the traps.

No, they reach peak acceleration (up to 6 G's) at launch. By the time they get past the 1/8-mile mark, they are not pulling anywhere near that. They are geared to reach peak velocity/redline RPM at the 1,320-ft mark.

[Craig 94 TA GT]

Hey Fred, I think we got all lost in the middle of many posts of people explaining theories...however, this is only thing I'm trying to refute...
FastTA originally said...
"When you break the first trap speed beam a timer starts, then when you break the second beam the timer calculates your exact speed when you cross the finish line."

Is it just me, or am I not reading this correctly? The debate is over the trap being the average speed over 66 feet (what I'm saying) or the exact speed when you cross the finish line (maybe what he's saying in the above quote ?). Please let me know your thoughts...

[Craig 94 TA GT]

OK, I think I see what he's saying...that the timer calculates the exact speed over the 66 foot mark as soon as the car crosses the second beam. Is this what he's trying to say?

I first implied that he was saying that once the car crosses the second beam, it can somehow calculate your speed as you cross the beam. I thought this because he said that "This is not an average but a precise speed." And what really threw me off of what he was trying to say was... "You are correct about their being "average" correlated to the mathematical computations of the trap computers and that is the average of acceleration." Average of acceleration ?
So is the first paragraph what he (or you Kevin) was trying to say?

[Joe 1320]

Fred, you da man!

I still say with all this, substantial field research is needed. Calculators are for kiddies. Lets find someone with enough dough to bankroll a real time test facility. All of us could just go and experiment.

[Injuneer]

Craig:

I aqgree that sentence...

When you break the first trap speed beam a timer starts, then when you break the second beam the timer calculates your exact speed when you cross the finish line.

.... is incorrect, and if you stopped reading right there, you would get the impression he doesn't understand what he is talking about. But if you read what he said subsequently, he explains it as dDISTANCE / dTIME. You are both saying the same thing as long as you skip the first sentence, IMHO.

Funny... when I first read his first post, I had the exact same reaction, and typed a message that started with "fastTA: You are wrong."..... but as I reread the first post, and the subsequent posts, I realized he understood what he was saying, he just made a mistake in the first sentence.

[Craig 94 TA GT]

Ah, got it. Thanks for the clarification Fred. I apologize for misunderstanding! Just thrown way off by that first sentence. But at least we know one thing...we all drive beautiful f-bodies!

Joe, count me in for the experiment lol. Just make sure the grant is 6 figures

[Jay 02 TA ws6]

I don't intend to "dumb down" an informative debate... but why do they use the last 66 feet as opposed to say the last 4 or 5 feet? Wouldn't that give a more precise reading?

Good stuff guys... sorry to ask such a "noobish" question.

[Injuneer]

Joe....

We need to remember the difference between "scientists" and "engineers". Scientists want the exact answer, engineers are satisfied with the practical answer.

A "scientist" and an "engineer" were posed a problem.... they were told to stand on one side of a large room. On the opposite wall of the room stood an attractive member of the opposite sex. The scientist and the engineer were told that they would take turns moving toward that attractive person, but would be allowed to move only 1/2 of the remaining distance in each move.

The scientist, being 100% correct said "no matter how many times I move, I will never reach the opposite wall"..... he threw his hands in the air and walked away.

The engineer, being more reasonable thought... "no matter how many times I move, I will never reach the opposite wall. But I will get close enough for all practical purposes.".

Guess who won.

[Joe 1320]

That's funny.

[M3EATER - GG '00 WS6 T/A]

Can always count on Fred for accuracy and reason....

[fastTa]

When you break the first trap speed beam a timer starts, then when you break the second beam the timer calculates your exact speed when you cross the finish line.

Yes I agree, a little confusing. I made the mistake of using the word "exact".

No, they reach peak acceleration (up to 6 G's) at launch. By the time they get past the 1/8-mile mark, they are not pulling anywhere near that. They are geared to reach peak velocity/redline RPM at the 1,320-ft mark.

Fred I was simply referring to the last 66 feet of acceleration. And by the way there were not gratuitous insults, simply one and I did apologize to Craig for that......let's move on.

You know the whole grant idea really isn't bad. Maybe if we got enough f-body owners to QUIBBLE long and hard enough, we could get an investor to respond.

[BAS]

I think 4.10's are too much for nitrous

Won't you have an extra shift at the end?

I don't see how 4th will hold 4.10's on the N20.

You'll have to shift to 5th and lose out.

3.73's might be your best bet, eh?

[N20LT4Bird]

Originally posted by BAS
I think 4.10's are too much for nitrous

Won't you have an extra shift at the end?

I don't see how 4th will hold 4.10's on the N20.

You'll have to shift to 5th and lose out.

3.73's might be your best bet, eh?

Kind of what I was thinking, but as Fred pointed out, I have to pop the rear cover and see what I've got in there now to start.