GM has finally done it!

[Joe K. 99 Zeee!!]

If you're wondering what this is refering too...

........and a while back, someone (who shall go unnamed) mentioned that he was at a GM clinic and saw some really interesting cars and trucks......one particular car was VERY interesting to him........

Here is a photoshop picture and I dare say it's most likely very close to what he saw at the styling clinic....

Notice it's very close to a certain Buick Concept car (Velite) that will be debuted at the NY Auto show. So, if you want to see a bit of future Camaro DNA, get yourself to NY.

http://f1.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/dan...&.dnm=1a59.jpg

[Detroit_Bird]

I'm with Joe 1320, Fast TA and some of the others. I doubt I'll ever drive anything but GM because thats what I was raised on, know how to wrench on, and am familiar with. I work for a company that does problem solving on Big 3 vehicles, and solving some of Ford's issues are ridiculous. Things that you wouldn't even think of having durability and quality issues come in regularly. We don't see this from GM, mainly because many of their serious issues are solved in-house, which, in my mind is a good thing. GM also tends to want to fix a known problem, while Ford tends to put band-aids on them, which is why the issues tend to manifest themselves later.

Regardless of whether GM is currently producing vehicles I consider desireable or not, there are many vehicles in the past that GM has produced that I can find with low mileage and are well kept. Honestly, I believe the era for our cars is passing as much as I don't want to admit it. Let's face it, V8 rear drives are more expensive to produce, require more skill to drive, and don't make the smog nazi's happy.

I don't believe Camaro will ever be the same even if it comes back. I say this because I see more and more complicated electronics being phased in (variable valve timing, cylinder shutdown, solenoid actuated valves) that will make it very difficult to modify a car for the average consumer- cost will be high. And a lot of the camaro's legacy stems from it's enormous aftermarket support and fan base.

Im trying to say that I'm not holding out for a new Camaro, and I wouldn't want to drive a Ford- I don't want to deal with their issues. So I'm happy to drive my 10 year old product, fix it as it breaks, and modify it to my liking. Sorry about the long post-

[fastTa]

Well said Detroit_Bird. TimeLord mentioned earlier that he didn't really understand what he referred to as "Brand loyalty". I think the reason for this particular "loyalty" stems from the experiences people have had with various cars from different manufacturers. I personally have owned vehicles made by Ford and GM.... and many others for that matter. However, specifically comparing the Ford and GM vehicles according to my own experience has left me with a bitter taste in my mouth for Ford's. In my experience, the GM vehicles that I have owned (and still do)have significantly exceeded the quality and reliability of the Ford's I have owned. It is truly not my intent to bash Ford's, I am just citing my own personal experience.

[TimeLord]

FastTA !!! I get the general drift of what you are saying,I too have owned GMs,Chryslers,Austin Mini,Austin Healey[vette327 engine]Datsuns[I'm a little older],,,,,the ones that gave me the least problems were the Mopars.

When I was shopping for a car in 94 I went around all the dealerships Ford/Chrysler/GM and even looked into used ZR-1s,the best product on the market was the Camaro so that is what I bought,if next time it is the 06 Mustang or Dodge Charger then I will buy that vehicle.

I do not work on my cars that is what speed shops are for,they KNOW what they are doing,I don't!!

The car iI ran prior to this was a Rebel Machine,besides grenading the engine[my fault] it never gave me any real problems.

Detroit_Bird !!!

We don't see this from GM, mainly because many of their serious issues are solved in-house, which, in my mind is a good thing. GM also tends to want to fix a known problem, while Ford tends to put band-aids on them, which is why the issues tend to manifest themselves later.

High speed vibration due to harmonic vibration from DS was present on 3rd gen and was carried over over to the 4th gen,see my file at GM concerning the WW III I had with the DSM trying to get this fixed,,,,,

We give them 10s of thousand of dollars of our money and they try everything to avoid claim service,,,The Japanese are taking clients away from the big 2[Chrysler now being MB]by the boatload not by stealing them but by winning their loyalty with good service and respect!!!!

Once the Japanese take over the Big Truck market [look at the TITAN] GM and Ford will have nothing left to sell!!!!

[Jeff_in_Atl]

"I'm with Joe 1320, Fast TA and some of the others. I doubt I'll ever drive anything but GM because thats what I was raised on, know how to wrench on, and am familiar with."

That is exactly what it is. I can say lots of bad things about GMs.

"Things that you wouldn't even think of having durability and quality issues come in regularly."

How about the OPTI on a LT1. technically speaking it is a great design. Put it in the real world and it was a disaster. Not to mention putting something susceptible to water damage directly below the weep hole of the water pump. Not good.

I drove a Ford for 17 years and it never needed towing. I drove a GM for less than 2 years and it had to be towed twice. I was never left stranded with the Ford.

Another thing I disagree with is about the parts. My 85 Mustang GT with a 302 used the same distributor as my moms 77 Marquis with a 460. A lot of parts are interchangeable between platforms. Gm redesigns just about everything for different platforms. Case in point is the headlights bulbs are different for the Camaro as is the Firebird. The headlights for my Camaro are $35 compared to my old Mustang being $5. Everything for my Camaro is really expensive compared to my Mustang. Having to redesign a part is expensive. The headers are different for a 93, 94-95, and 96-97. The headers for a 93 Mustang will fit a 79 Mustang.

Now that I know a little more about the Camaro, I think I can fix it and save some bucks but the big thing is what you are used to working on. Both Ford and GM have their good points and their bad points. Same thing with every car manufacturer.

I'm not sure about the Mustang. I never liked the 67-68 grill. I think I'll wait till the 69-70 comes out. LOL

Here come the flames.

[Joe K. 99 Zeee!!]

Don't forget those window motors Jeff!

I for one will re-evaluate my choices when I need another car. For me, at the time, Camaro fit the bill perfectly. It had the performance I wanted at a good price, the utility was there, it held 4 people, and it was not the ever popular (slightly over-hyped IMO) Mustang. I grew up with a 67 too, so that helped.

There're going to be a plethora of new perforance cars to choose from...everything from Mustangs to GTO's to Hemi Chargers to a smaller sporty Solstice and Saturn Curve. Not to mention used C5's and other models.


It's going to be a great time to be in the market in a year or two. I plan to be there....I'm looking forward to it!

[Jeff_in_Atl]

"Don't forget those window motors Jeff!" That's right.

"Hemi Chargers"? I haven't heard anything. I am out of touch with the auto world because it makes me want things I can't aFord. lol I want a 96 LT4 Vette.

[fastTa]

No worries, no flames here!
The interchangeability of Ford parts is definitely a plus. Not to mention the monster of an aftermarket for Ford Mustangs.

Fundamental flaws can be shown in every make and model ever built. On the flip side, there are vehicles of various make and model that have proven themselves extremely durable.

I guess the point to be learned for all of us from this thread is that cars are kinda like music. We will never unanimously agree on one type of music or one song for that matter, but I think we would all agree that it is because of this infinite variety in music (cars) that we can all individually choose and develop a passion for music as a whole.

We will never all agree on one particular manufacturer or model, but our passion for cars regardless of make and model is what drives us to spend our grocery money on the never ending mod's.

It is that passion that all brings us here to f-body.com.

[TimeLord]

[Jeff_in_Atl]

Originally posted by fastTA
No worries, no flames here!
The interchangeability of Ford parts is definitely a plus. Not to mention the monster of an aftermarket for Ford Mustangs.

Fundamental flaws can be shown in every make and model ever built. On the flip side, there are vehicles of various make and model that have proven themselves extremely durable.

I guess the point to be learned for all of us from this thread is that cars are kinda like music. We will never unanimously agree on one type of music or one song for that matter, but I think we would all agree that it is because of this infinite variety in music (cars) that we can all individually choose and develop a passion for music as a whole.

We will never all agree on one particular manufacturer or model, but our passion for cars regardless of make and model is what drives us to spend our grocery money on the never ending mod's.

It is that passion that all brings us here to f-body.com.

Amen buddy.

It's really funny the bickering that goes on in all kinds of stuff. It get down right violent sometimes. Here's some examples for everybody because I know people on here have other interest besides cars.

obviously Ford-Chevy
Fender-Gibson (I split it. I have a Gibson guitar and a Fender amp)
Futaba-JR
Democrat-Republican or liberal-conservative (massive debate)
Jewish-Muslims (Oh my)

[NY_Rebel]

I think most of you got the point. The point being that we, the f-body loyal have been left out in the cold. We are left with only 2 options, buy used f-bodies or buy anopther brand. Well for me, it seemed the best thing I could do to preserve my beloved f-bodies was to eleminate the demand for putting excessive miles on them. The way I did that was to buy a Mustang. This is my first Ford purchase, EVER, in the 25+ years that I have been buying cars. I'm sure I will buy additional f-bodies in the future, but will probably be in a Mustang as a daily driver. .....

[fastTa]

Originally posted by NY_Rebel
I think most of you got the point. The point being that we, the f-body loyal have been left out in the cold. We are left with only 2 options, buy used f-bodies or buy anopther brand. Well for me, it seemed the best thing I could do to preserve my beloved f-bodies was to eleminate the demand for putting excessive miles on them. The way I did that was to buy a Mustang. This is my first Ford purchase, EVER, in the 25+ years that I have been buying cars. I'm sure I will buy additional f-bodies in the future, but will probably be in a Mustang as a daily driver. .....

I'm sure you will enjoy making your Mustang faster. There is a huge and fairly inexpensive aftermarket for Mustangs. I have to admit, I still enjoy to this day the way a Mustang with LT's,ORP, and Flowmasters sounds!

[Jeff_in_Atl]

Originally posted by NY_Rebel
I think most of you got the point. The point being that we, the f-body loyal have been left out in the cold. We are left with only 2 options, buy used f-bodies or buy anopther brand. Well for me, it seemed the best thing I could do to preserve my beloved f-bodies was to eleminate the demand for putting excessive miles on them. The way I did that was to buy a Mustang. This is my first Ford purchase, EVER, in the 25+ years that I have been buying cars. I'm sure I will buy additional f-bodies in the future, but will probably be in a Mustang as a daily driver. .....

Here's a couple of places for ya to try. I have bought a LOT of stuff from both places.
http://www.stangparts.com/
http://www.mustangsunlimited.com/

[fastTa]

Believe it or not Thunder Racing even sells mustang parts.

[Mirroredshades]

You know what I want to see. I want to see Dodge stick a 345 HP Hemi into a 3000 pound car. They are selling that motor in a $20k pickup truck. Why not put a decent looking body on a Stratus platform and drop the Hemi in it. Instant 'Stang fighter for $22k.