Nitrous or Supercharger?

[Jeff_in_Atl]

Originally posted by MN6WS6
"At $2.50 a pound, that was $50 every 2 weeks. Times 26 weeks = $1300 a year. In 2.5 years, you've paid for the supercharger."

What you are not figuring in is that the supercharger will have to be rebuilt probably every year, and you've just thrown a whole bunch more money into the scheme. Blowers, turbos, and superchargers are nice, and yes they can make some big time power, but they are ALWAYS stressing the motor, and they are ALWAYS stressing themselves, and stress=friction=rebuild. Believe me, nitrous is the way to go in this situation. $1300 a year for nitrous refills is chump change compared to a new blower every year on top of a rebuild. Big power means big repair bills, and the only thing you replace on nitrous kits is filters and solenoids. A couple hundred a year is nothing compared to $3000 superchargers.

You can "believe" what you want to believe. I'm going to be like Fox news here, "I report, you decide". I have never heard of anyone having to rebuild a supercharger every year. Turbos usually go 100,000 miles before needing rebuilding. The only supercharger that I know of that gets rebuilt a lot are nitro cars. Supercharging doesn't really stress the motor until you wind it up, but you have to remember, the cylinder is under pressure anyway. Yes it is raising the pressure but with a supercharger you use less gas pedal under normal driving conditions so it makes up for it. Under normal driving conditions, they don't use any more fuel and air than a normally aspirated car because you don't have to press the gas as far down to get it to go so it evens out. I don't know anyone who has had to have a supercharger rebuilt.

Let's see if Kevin will chime in here and give his experience.

[nathanaf8388]

i believe in turbos turbos in my opinion are better than superchargers and from people i know who have them turbos are better well just my $.02

[KnightFire]

It also has a lot to do with SHORT term money...if you don't have a lot of money, say barely enough to build a nice forged motor, then you can at least have fun with nice wet/dry system that will probably cost a 1/2 that a super/turbocharger would cost all said and done. In my case, I didn't want the extra power unless I was at the track (430RWHP is more than enough to have fun on the street, just guessing my numbers here, haven't dyno'ed her yet)...but at the track, I want my power to come in at WOT, yes its more of a "jolt" to the drivetrain and yes it can be very costly if its not properly tuned, but then again so can any forced induction method.

And no you don't always have to be on the go button backing out of your driveway...one 10lb bottle of N2O should easily last you a day at the track...figuring about 4 GOOD runs and 2 or 3 average run...depending on size of spray.

To me it always came down to the money of it...I couldn't afford to drop 4k at once, so I'm slowly building a really nice N2O system...I'll probably go direct port after awhile, get bored with that and go the ATI route with a small shot of N2O to back it up (probably for launching purposes only)...

Just how I see it...


KnightFire

[WSmakaveli2003]

The Charger Is Cheaper In The End

[redbird94]

whichever will stay more consistant, so i say the supercharger,my brother has a vortec chargetr on hiso 94 ta damn it sounds so sweet and its fast,man charger is the way to go, altho i no a guy who runs a 69 Z with a 500 shot, but he is pushin 1600-1700 hp..... mid to low eights in the quarter, and nearly goes brankrupt every year to et his cars started, over 80 gs inevested in tghat car alone, now add that to about the 30 in his 74 which has 200 shot, and thats ridiculous, that said is a lil offf topic but wutever


supercharger!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Kevin - Blown 95 TA]

Both can be made to do what he wants & be reliable & consistent. N20 isn't fake power at all - matter of fact, some German fighter-bombers used it in WW2. I think the N2O might be trickier to set up & a little more attention paid to it between rounds. The N20 setup he is talking about wouldn't be substantially cheaper than a blower because he is looking at a direct port system. If you add a controller, warmer, remote valve, safety solenoids, filters, and all the trick stuff to really do it right and protect the engine - it gets costly. The blower has more intake plumbing than a N20 engine and if it is intercooled, that can get expensive too. I think it's a draw. As far as expense goes - RACING IS EXPENSIVE!!! If all he spends a year is $1-2000 a year on N20 refills or blower rebuilds, he will be leading a charmed life.

As for on the street, N20 is more convenient for reasons already mentioned. Centrifugal blowers are fine too because at low rpms they don't make much boost and mileage doesn't suffer too much. I think I'm getting a little over 20 (20-23) mpg on the interstate, and around town I don't really know. My car is a very mild setup, though - I'm only pullied up a little & have a baby blower cam.

[KnightFire]

Kevin et. al.
You guys make some good points in this thread...I however was just trying to point out that you could get a bare bones system add some nice things as you go and have a decent setup for far less than plunking down 3-4k all at once.

All things being equal mostly money on hand, of course the super/turbo charger is the only way to go, I just don't know many people that have that kind of money laying around...which definately includes me. So I've slowly but surely built a nice TNT wet system. I was trying to figure out if he had the 4k on hand or not from his post...couldn't tell either way.

Its not as tough on the wallet at least not all at once and you can still have some fun with it and reduce your ETs in a progressive manor.

That's the point I was trying to make...dunno if it got across or not.

I still think that a direct 300 shot would have more of a fun/sniper factor...but hey, thats just me



KnightFire

[MN6WS6]

Jeff, a supercharger does always drag on the motor. The supercharger is connected to the pulleys (or chains on some serious cars) and that is always turning the supercharger. The supercharger is always boosting as well, even guys with bone stock Lightnings run around on 1-2 pounds of boost, making up for their lower compression ratios. Turbos are the same way, they restrict exhaust flow, as that exhaust is what is used to turn the turbo over. Nitrous motors have of those restrictions. No unwanted boost on the motor, no unwanted restriction on the exhaust.

100,000 miles on a street turbo is not a problem, but we are talking about race applications. In a car that is raced weekly with high boost, you will be rebuilding the motor every year and rebuilding or replacing superchargers and turbos. In full race applications, these things are at their operating limits, and stay at that limit for short periods of time. However, over the life of the supercharger, it stays at it's limit a lot longer than a street application. Bearings fail, seals go out, so it has to be rebuilt.

Let's say just for the heck of it a supercharger has to be rebuilt every 2000 hours of operation. In a street car, 1800 of those hours would be putt-putting around town. But in a drag car like this guy is talking about, 1800 of those hours would be at maximum boost. However, we all know that in the real world RPM's kill everything. And when a supercharger spends 30 seconds at 100 RPM's then 8,9,10 seconds at 10,000 RPMs, then 30 seconds at 100 RPM's, it's going to wear out like a ho going for a sex record.

Key thing to remember, THIS IS A RACE APPLICATION. And the bottom line is that if you go boost, you better have deep pockets.

[Jeff_in_Atl]

"Jeff, a supercharger does always drag on the motor."

Yea Joe convinced me of that in the other thread. Even still, I go with the supercharger. I don't like re-occurring costs.

[95z28]

Wheel stands may waste power, but damn they look sweet, and make jaws drop ...

[fastTa]

Alright, I just got home from work. First let me respond to Injuneers post.

Yes Fred, you are right. I probably should have given a few more details regrading the class I will be running in, so here are some of the important ones.

1 power adder only
cylinder heads may be of any type except billet
SB2 and other non-factory 11 through 18 degree heads are permitted but entrants must add 300 lbs of penalty weight

no tire size restrictions
non-electronics
foot-brake only
454 cubic inch limit
combinations of different types of power adders prohibited.
multiple stage nitrous permitted
supercharger (any size or type) permitted
single or multiple turbocharger(s) permitted
alcohol or water injection permitted
intercoolers/aftercoolers are permitted
nitrous oxide cannot be used to externally cool an intercooler

[fastTa]

Now let me address the debate over the rebuilding of centrifugal superchargers.

I have been around drag racing for a long time. I have probably known or talked to at least 50 people in the last 10 years who had a centrufugally supercharged motor. I only heard of 1 guy who had to rebuild his supercharger and that was because he was using a Vortech that got it's oil from a tapped oil pan and some junk from the bottom of the oil pan clogged the supply line and you can imagine what happened to the charger.

Procharger was the first to release a self-contained lubrication system. Paxton and Vortech are still trying to play catch up (and always will be ) with Procharger's engineering and R&D.

A self contained Procharger head unit that is not severely overdriven and has it's internal oil changed on a properly scheduled basis, will last many, many years.

[Jeff_in_Atl]

Originally posted by fastTA
Procharger was the first to release a self-contained lubrication system. Paxton and Vortech are still trying to play catch up (and always will be ) with Procharger's engineering and R&D.

I didn't know procharger has been around for 50 years. I know they put Paxtons on some factory cars back in the 50s and 60s and they have their own internal oil. They have a little dip stick on the side. http://www.paxtonauto.com/about/

http://www.procharger.com/automotive.shtml

I don't like the Vortex because of the oil system too.

[fastTa]

I got some quotes today. Going with a Procharger F-2 cog drive, 6 core sheetmetal intercooler, all hardware, plumbing, and brackets, I am looking at about $4240. I gave Pro-Charger a run down of my motor's specs and they said that I should be able to easily obtain 1250+ fwhp with 22psi and a good tune. WOW!

[Z Ya Later]

nothin' like a hair drier...

...to make you feel good down the track. I'm going with what nathan said earlier and would choose a turbo. You run all motor at launch, thus reducing the possibility of lighting up. You lose no power due to a belt drive, but instead recycle your exhaust gas to make more power. There's no ongoing charge to keep a bottle filled, just bolt it in and go (like a blower). And, that whine just sounds soooooooo freakin' cool (also like a blower). If set up correctly, boost can be adjusted somewhat easily and its only there when you jump on the motor. I've gone up against guys with big motors in the GN and watched their jaws drop as I fly by them with the turbo spooled. In my opinion man, if you really want something trick...go with a turbo. Might take a little more work, but she'll be set apart from the crowd and definitely lay down some serious numbers. Just my thoughts. Good luck on your decision.