Nitrous or Supercharger?

[fastTa]

I totally agree with the fact that a turbo is the ticket to maximum power, but I just can't get used to the quiet exhaust of a turbo powered car.

Hearing a big HP V8 through open headers is what I call drag racing! But that's just me.

[WSmakaveli2003]

Originally posted by fastTA
I got some quotes today. Going with a Procharger F-2 cog drive, 6 core sheetmetal intercooler, all hardware, plumbing, and brackets, I am looking at about $4240. I gave Pro-Charger a run down of my motor's specs and they said that I should be able to easily obtain 1250+ fwhp with 22psi and a good tune. WOW!

If Ur Not Gonna Install It UrSelf..Watch Out...It'll Take A Bite Out Of Ur Wallet HeHe

[TrAnS Am 98]

::bite:: gimme money

and o yea, supercharger

[Z Ya Later]

Ummm, I don't know what turbo cars you listen to, but the ones I've heard sound quite friggen mean. Plus, if you do a twin turbo setup...dude, power and rumble with a true dual...need I say more? All the turbo cars I've heard (outside of rice) have had a nice grumble to them. Just my thoughts

[fastTa]

Originally posted by WSmakaveli2003
If Ur Not Gonna Install It UrSelf..Watch Out...It'll Take A Bite Out Of Ur Wallet HeHe

Whatever we choose to go with we are going to install it ourselves. But yeah installs can get pricey!

BTW, thanks for all the replies guys. I realy appreciate it!

[Injuneer]

I always thought the typical turbo was launched on boost? Isn't that what they're doing when they sit at the starting line and "spool up"? Its fun to sort of jerk them around a little by delaying things as much as you can.... they can only sit there for so long and hold it before something has to "give".

Maybe Joe can fill us in on launching with a turbo.....

[fastTa]

Originally posted by Injuneer
I always thought the typical turbo was launched on boost? Isn't that what they're doing when they sit at the starting line and "spool up"? Its fun to sort of jerk them around a little by delaying things as much as you can.... they can only sit there for so long and hold it before something has to "give".

Maybe Joe can fill us in on launching with a turbo.....

I am almost certain you're right Fred. I don't know if you guys have heard of Mike Murillo or not, but he is a friend of mine and races with Dan Millen in the NMRA. I've watched these guys for years make their cars go faster and faster.

Well they will sit their on the line and spool their turbos up and then violently leave the lights. Their cars launch much harder than even blown big blocks and are very quiet while doing it.

Look at this video of Dan Millen at the Clash of the Titans. This is a 1,700 hp car and you can barely hear it but it gets down the track like a pissed off cheetah!

The car next to him is a cetrifugally supercharged, big cam, big block chevy. It sounds like Dan Millen (white mustang) lets off at about the 1000 ft but in fact it is the guy in the left lane who gives up.


http://www.theclashofthetitans.com/i...eos/vids/9.mpg

[Injuneer]

I think when they sit there with the turbo spooled up, on the brake, the intercooler temp starts to rise..... and down goes the HP.

Joe... where are you?

[Joe 1320]

Here's the deal with turbos...... small turbos build boost quickly but are limited in total flow. Big turbos take longer to build boost, but really flow like mad once under boost. A stick shift car is at a disadvange. There must be a load against the engine before boost can build. Here's where an automatic has the advantage. Put it in gear, put your foot on the brake and brake torque it. As a load comes against the engine, cylinder pressure increases, fuel consumption increases and exhaust pressure increases. This is what drives the compressor portion of the turbo. As boost soars against a load, you can leave the line already at full boost instead of like what happens with a stick car. A stick shift must wait until the clutch is fully engaged and the tires hook in order to build the same kind of cylinder pressure. Not to mention that an automatic stays under full load even on a gear change. The downside as Fred mentioned, as boost increases so does temperature. If air is not moving across the intercooler due to vehicle movement or auxilary fans, the intercooler becomes heat soaked and power drops off. Larger air to air intercoolers or air to water are less prone to heat soak and can effectively lower inlet temperatures for longer periods of time. My race intercooler is boxed in and holds a chamber of ice and water mixed. It is only good for a quarter mile run, but is much more effective at controlling boost and temperature for longer periods at the line. It is limited on the street, the ice melts too quickly so a same size air to air unit is swapped in place for street duty. The ideal scenerio for a car like my GN is to heat the hides to clean them off, go to the line and pre-stage. The instant the competition pre-stages, go immeditaly to stage and start building boost. Usually that's just enough time to get to boost without excessively boosting for extended periods driving the heat up. Sometimes, depending on the track and proceedures, I immediatly go to stage before for the opponant to pre-stage. This does tick off some people, but hey...that's racing.

The ideal launch is a delicate balance between rpm and boost, how quickly boost climbs after releasing either the footbrake or the trans brake, available traction during increase in boost pressure, temperature, etc...... an endless mix of variables. It's a tap dance right on the line between traction and spinning terribly. I also prefer to launch within 8 seconds of building boost, after that the intercooler begins it's heat soak and power drops off progressively as temperature rises. It is not uncommon for the temperature of the intake air to be heated to 180º F. by the time it reaches the intercooler. You can only put 180º hot air though an intercooler (basically an air radiator) before it absorbes the heat itself. I've found 6 seconds is about the norm for an air to air and about 8-10 seconds for an air to water intercooler before inlet temps rise. All this means launch before it heats up or you find yourself down 50 horses.

As far as the sound goes, when I run an open downpipe it has a pretty good rumble to it. For street duty I actually run twin 3"stainless walker ultraflows in series to quiet it down. With an open downpipe you really hear the turbo spool. Sounds jet-like.

[WSmakaveli2003]

How About Both

[fastTa]

Went to the track tonight to watch some heads up racing and to watch some of the LS1tech.com Spring Break Shootout guys practice & tune before Sunday.

I talked to some of the turbo guys and most of them pretty much said what Joe described. The fastest cars tonight though were nitrous cars. There was a n2o Nova that was running 8.40's even with tuning problems and having to pedal at about the 1000 ft. He was definitely good for a 7.

Well Fred, Joe, guys, if you had about 6K to do a power adder what would it be. Just to help out on the decision I should be able to make around 700 hp naturally aspirated at 11.5:1. If I do a 400 shot that will put me loosely around 1180 fwhp. I can get more than that if I go with the F-2 for about the same coin. Decisions, decisions, decisions.

I need to hurry up and make up my mind, because Seth at Combination Motorsports is to hear from me on which compression ratio to cut the pistons to.

[Joe 1320]

I don't know if I can help you decide. I've had N/A, turbo, nitrous, supercharger, just never combined turbo and nitrous or supercharger and nitrous but know some that have done it. I suppose if I were doing it, there would be a choice from passion. I think either way you go, you will get there, it depends on what passion you want to see unfold. I like the never ending power of a supercharger. I like intercoolers for them too. I don't like the adjustabiltity of a supercharger as much as I like turbos or computer controllers for nitrous. tapping a few keystrokes on a console or twisting an adjustable wastegate is much quicker and easier than swapping pulleys. You might just find that a supercharger with a little lower boost and the addition of a smaller shot of nitrous may be exactly what is needed. The nitrous would mainly act as an intercooler for the heated intake air, the effeciency of the supercharger would in a round about way, increase. The smaller nitrous hit would still use a computer controller and if needed, can be dial up to the limit of the rotating assembly. Just a thought..... Might be easier in the tuning from round to round.

[fastTa]

Looks like I am going n20!! We are going to try for a 425 shot. Pray for me that the hardblock holds my poor LT1 block together!

[b3master]

Originally posted by fastTA
I am almost certain you're right Fred. I don't know if you guys have heard of Mike Murillo or not, but he is a friend of mine and races with Dan Millen in the NMRA. I've watched these guys for years make their cars go faster and faster.

Well they will sit their on the line and spool their turbos up and then violently leave the lights. Their cars launch much harder than even blown big blocks and are very quiet while doing it.

Look at this video of Dan Millen at the Clash of the Titans. This is a 1,700 hp car and you can barely hear it but it gets down the track like a pissed off cheetah!

The car next to him is a cetrifugally supercharged, big cam, big block chevy. It sounds like Dan Millen (white mustang) lets off at about the 1000 ft but in fact it is the guy in the left lane who gives up.


http://www.theclashofthetitans.com/i...eos/vids/9.mpg

it is a shocking video, incredible, but i have a question, these are automatic cars? or manual? i cant even think that somone goes through 1st 2nd 3rd and 4th gear to achieve 198MPH in just 7 seconds??? maybe it is a single gear? hehe... hell even automatic it just hard to believe its shifting and doesnt waste not even a split of a split second shifting but its right there infront of me i just sit here replaying it and drooling

can it be like just two gears? im so stunned

[WSmakaveli2003]

If Ur Going For Launch, From Either Turbo Or Charger, The Charger Is Obviously The Way To Go