its time to face reality, Americans.....

[TraceZ]

Originally posted by Benm109
I believe that raising the age that you can get your license would definetely help some. In my state, kids can get their permit at 15 and license at 16. This sounds crazy to me. I got my permit at 17 and my license at 18 and I thank myself and my family for that everyday. I know that if I got my license at 16 that I probably would have at least totaled a car or killed myself. I was not very mature at 15 or 16.

I think the keyword that someone said here was "maturity" and they are dead on.

Lets see...
Age 16 - I wrecked my Dad's 1987 Iroc by rearending a car not paying attention to the lane ahead of me
age 17 - I put my 1986 Camaro in a ditch driving too fast for conditions
age 18 - I lightly hit another car with my 1986 Camaro driving too fast for conditions
age 19 - I bent a rim on my 1986 Camaro because I wiped out driving too fast for conditions
age 21 - I totalled my 1 year old 1995 Z28, lost traction on the upshift and spun through a fence.

I'm 30 now, and not had as much as a ticket since I was 21. I used to be a holy terror on the roads. I raced all the time, always had a V8 Camaro. I changed lanes really quickly and took corners really fast. Boy was I dumb. I'm lucky I'm alive.

I drive much differently now. All my accidents were during the day. I did have friends in the car during 2 of them, but were ever injured and neither was I. I may have been paying better attention and avioded the first accident if I had been alone in the car. The ditch accident was the result of me trying to impress a friiend that was in the car with me and could had been avoided if I was alone.

A law preventing passengers while under 18 may have helped me.

[wolfdogs]

I'm lucky I'm alive.

I drive much differently now.


__________________
Tracy
94 Z-28 6speed convertible
looks (mostly) stock...


*********************************************

so are the other folks that were near you.....






ive had two accidents, neither were my fault and unavoidable.

ive had only one moving violation in 42 years for driving.............
.........gulp.............

130mph in a 65......... lonely interstate in texas with a large medial strip...........

gulp............

on a 1987 Yamaha FJ1200 sport bike............

beat the ticket........

[markd79ta]

Originally posted by TraceZ
A law preventing passengers while under 18 may have helped me.

Yep, peer pressure in high school is the worst. A fairly responsible kid can do something pretty darn stupid when there are friends to impress. My accident at 17 was under the influence of peer pressure. I was a totally different driver when I was alone, but I was horrible when I had friends in the car...snow bashing was the "cool" thing to do where I grew up. and, I did it well only when there were people in the car. The "no passengers rule" is being discussed along with curfews and point totals creating provisional licenses.

On a sad note: a teen just died this week when he was challenged by his friends to swim across a lake at a golf course during a baseball awards banquette. Friends can make us do some pretty dumb things in our teen years.

[Injuneer]

Originally posted by Mark B
In New Jersey, they just raised the fine for not providing proof of License, Insurance, or registration. It was $76 now its $172. Thats crazy!! But I guess it worked. I got that ticket last month.... And now I am sure as hell not going to get cought without my documents in my car!!!

But what I was saying... Why did they raise that fine and left the other fines alone? It doesnt make sense. I want them to more than double the fine for driving slow in the left lane, speeding, tailgating, reckless driving, etc. Mabey then people will stop doing that stuff too?

It's actually quite easy to explain why they changed the fines for lack of documentation:

$ $ $ $ $ $

In many instances, when someone is stopped for speeding, the police will let them off, and write a ticket for "lack of documents".... they think they are doing people a favor, because this avoids "points" for the speeding ticket, and insurance comapany surcharges for having "points"..... The state legislature realized that because the fine for "lack of documents" was less than the fine for speeding, they were losing $ $ $ $, so they raised the fine for "lack of documents" to increase cash flow into the treasury.

Thank you Governor Jim McCheesy.... errr, I mean McGreevy... you have applied yet another "tax" on the residents of NJ, in spite of your promise not to do so.

NJ State Motto:

Your car is our cash cow........

Ken:

You are 100% correct. Its the poor "me first" attitude that seems to control 90% of the dirvers on the road. Make the speed limit ABSOLUTE.... yes, the point made in the above post was good.... a few MPH higher, and ABSOLUTE.... no 5mph tolerance. Same with running ambers (now upgraded to "its only been red for 15 seconds, I can make it....").... do exactly what they do in Singapore. Cameras on every intersection.... run an amber, stop beyond the stop line, jump the light.... you get the ticket in the mail, with the photo.

And get people to drive smaller cars..... the school bus sized SUV's are ridiculous..... I've thought about using RPG's on the Hummers. Maybe the $2.00-3.00/Gal fuel prices will help solve that problem.

Solmebody has to wake the public up. If we don't, the next time someone hits you from behind, you will find the entire interior of your car filled with absorbent foam.... maybe like being in a giant can of Cool Whip....

[Dave M]

Excellent idea about the cool whip fred! I don't really agree with making the speed limit absolute, I don't think speed is the problem. Excessive speed, sure. But the normal speeding everyone does doesn't matter, it's what people are doing WHILE their speeding that kills. And if people were better trained, they'd be able to handle that speed better. If I were president/govenor there'd be:

permits at 16, license at 17, no points until 18 or license is gone until 18.

Mandatory driver training prior to permit or liscense application, defensive driving as well as performance driving, in all types of vehicles so people can learn the handling characteristics of each.

When you renew your lisence every 4-5 years, you get RETESTED!

Manadatory retesting every 1-2 years for those over, say 60.

Strciter enforcement of the driving on the right, redlight, and tailgating laws.

Different liscensing requirements for light truck buyers.

I'm normally not the guy who advocates more government enforcement or encroachment in our daily lives, but it is certainly needed in this case.

For whoever mentioned pedestrian safety, I've heard a little about that. Carmakers are looking at lowering the height of the front of SUV, trucks and cars, so that the impact to a pedestrian isn't in the upper body area, and actually putting airbags on the OUTSIDE of cars. This is just getting rediculous. If people wouldn't jaywalk, and people wouldn't speed through residential areas or if they actually yield at crosswalks, a lot more people would be saved then by airbags... I wonder if they ever thought of that?

[wolfdogs]

very good discussions and posts going on in this thread. you guys rock!!!!!!!!!!!

[Injuneer]

My only thought on the speeding is the issue of multi-lane highways. Example - NJ's Garden State Pkwy is 5 lanes in each direction at many points. The speed limit is (this is ridiculous - it is limited access, and no commercial trucks allowed) 55mph. It isn't unusual to find yourself driving 70mph in one of the two right-most lanes... and a few people pushing 75-80 in the rest of them. Then along comes the idiot who wants to go 90mph, and uses all 5 lanes, weaving in and out, to make it possible. In each case, almost everyone on the road has said "I'm going to exceed the speed limit (me among them)", but just to different degrees.

Either raise the limit to the safe level for the highway.... and 70-75mph is probably where it should be on that particular road, and take away the option for the people who want to go 90mph by making the limit absolute. Or, simply nail the "aggressive" drivers, who are zig-zagging lane-to-lane, cell phone in hand, and tailgating the "pokey" people who are only doing 75 in the "slow" lane. But there is very little enforcement of any kind on the roads, except an occasional radar trap, which everyone knows it there anyway.

Kind of funny.... I also drive the NJ Turnpike regularly. The most frequently enforced laws, if we are to judge by the number of vehicles pulled over, are 1) driving alone in the "car pool" lane, and 2) trucks lacking mud flaps Somehow, I think they have the enforcement priorities screwed up.

No easy answer, but ENFORCEMENT seems to be the key.

[Rhode Island Red]

Getting restested every few years is an idea but what really scares me is how easy the test is..the test is a complete joke The test should be more of a series of week long class with other drivers, going through various maneuvers and emenrgency situations..,. not some "yup he can stop at a stop sign" "yup he can parallel park" type stuff

this is what other countries do.. with autobahn... hmm I wonder how all those cars can go fast and not have crashes ...could it be every one of them was trained properly :

[markd79ta]

Originally posted by Injuneer
Make the speed limit ABSOLUTE.... yes, the point made in the above post was good.... a few MPH higher, and ABSOLUTE.... no 5mph tolerance. Same with running ambers (now upgraded to "its only been red for 15 seconds, I can make it....").... do exactly what they do in Singapore. Cameras on every intersection.... run an amber, stop beyond the stop line, jump the light.... you get the ticket in the mail, with the photo.

I agree with creating "no tolerance" zones for speeding in all suburban and urban areas. There is no room for speeding in high traffic areas and especially in residential communities. However, this should be targeted, and not an umbrella policy in general. In the rural west, there is countless miles and miles of empty highway. Speed restrictions are pretty dumb on some of these long flat desolate highways. 80-85ish in the daytime and 70-75ish at nighttime is about right. Most of the speed limits are 75. Anything under 75 would put you to sleep. If you have never driven out here, it can be pretty lonely at times (nothing but weeds, cactus, rocks, and dust for hundreds and hundreds of miles.) On some of these roads, you wont see another car for an hour or so. Back in my college days, I was traveling 80+ through Wyoming (only car on the road - me and the tumble weeds). Out of nowhere a State Patrolmen pulled out in front of me, slowed me down to 77ish and took off...basically...just keep it down...this is back when the speed limits were 65 as set by Federal Mandate which was way too slow for some of the highways out here.

We just need to do a better job of creating stiff penalties for irresponsible behavior in Suburban and Urban areas...if you are changing lanes in and out of traffic (reckless driving + big fine), if you are tailgating and flicking people off (reckless driving + big fine), if you are racing (reckless driving, forfeiture, and jail + big big fine), If you are traveling at unsafe speeds in Suburban and Urban areas, (reckless driving, in some cases forfeiture + big big fine). I also think that every intersection with a light should have a camera (run a red light...reckless driving + a big fine) I think people would get the drift. The speed traps especially in the middle of nowhere are a waste if time and tax payer resources. I get a little annoyed when I see a speed trap on a rural interstate overpass and no police in the neighborhoods. I think they would do a lot more good by putting unmarked, various makes of car, officers in rush hour traffic. They then can pull-over and nail some of these people to the wall for the stupid stuff they do.

[Dave M]

Fred, I agree 100% about the enforcment. But then you get guys who go on the internet and complain because all cops do is write tickets for the $$$ and aren't catching real criminals You can't have it both ways. If the general driving public is fed up with the state of the roads, they're going to have to put up with the enforcement, knowing that they either slow down and obey the rules, or they just run the risk of being ticketed.

Enforcement is definately the key. People's attitudes are not going to change, not with the way our lives are these days. You simply have to use behavioral adjustment. Make the fines stiff enough, and the enforcement tough enough, and no one will be willing to step out of line. I wish it didn't have to be like that, but it looks like it does.