Originally posted by Jeff 95 Z28
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Spec stage 2 clutch question
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96 WS6 Formula: Ram Air, 383 Stroker, Ported LT4 Heads and Manifold, 1.6 Crane Rollers, 58MM T.B., AS&M Headers, Borla Exhaust, Meziere Elec. H2O Pump, Canton Deep Sump Oil Pan, 100 HP OF TNT N2O!! , T56 Conversion w/ Pro 5.0 shifter, SPEC Stage 3 Clutch, Hotchkiss Subframe Conn., Lakewood Adj. Panhard Bar, Spohn Adj. LCA's, BMR Adj. T.A., Custom 12 bolt w/ 3:73's, Moser Axles, Eaton Posi, Moser Girdle
11.6 @ 123mph (1.6 60' - getting there)
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fastTa
Originally posted by MN6WS6Anyway, I can't recommend using an aluminum flywheel if you expect to keep this as a daily driver. You lose torque with an aluminum flywheel, and torque is what helps us kill the ricers out of the hole.
The aluminum flywheel will make those hardcore launches a little softer, but once you get the motor wound up and start rowing the gears, the aluminum flywheel will actually put more power to the ground. This is due to less power being soaked up, and it allows the rotating assembly to spin much quicker and thus allow the motor into the powerband much quicker.
It is a debatable tradeoff, but on the street the aluminum flywheel is incredibly better and much more fun to drive!
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fastTa
Originally posted by MN6WS6Actually, Kevin, it is a loss of torque at the rear wheels, and that's where you feel it. You lose torque and gain horsepower with an aluminum flywheel.
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If all that were true, then why do 18 wheeler flywheels weigh as much as they do? They have to have the torque multiplication (if you'll call it that) of the heavy flywheel to "sling" the tranny gears around and get the truck moving. RWTQ numbers are decreased with an aluminum flywheel, I've seen it myself, and some websites even tell you that in advance. Now your argument is true, if the engine were on an engine dyno, but on a wheel dyno, the numbers do change."No, officer, that bottle is my onboard Halon system"
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fastTa
Originally posted by MN6WS6If all that were true, then why do 18 wheeler flywheels weigh as much as they do? They have to have the torque multiplication (if you'll call it that) of the heavy flywheel to "sling" the tranny gears around and get the truck moving. RWTQ numbers are decreased with an aluminum flywheel, I've seen it myself, and some websites even tell you that in advance. Now your argument is true, if the engine were on an engine dyno, but on a wheel dyno, the numbers do change.
It is all about torque multiplication in regards to performance and not the peak overall torque potential that you seek to prove. Sure you can take a 500 lb flywheel and spin it up to 6,500 RPM's with a stock LS1 motor and then measure the peak torque potential by that particular flywheel. It would prove to show massive amounts of torque potential, but then would prove to simulataneously be obviously devastating to the performance of the LS1 car.
Less drivetrain roating mass, less driveline angle, and better ring and pinion relationship equals more power to the ground.
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Update on clutch woes.
I put in a Centerforce flywheel this weekend. The vibration is a little better but it's by no means gone. It still chatters on start and stops. It's worse in reverse. A little during shifts depending on fast your trying to shift. I wish I had gone with the Spec stage 1 clutch instead of the stage 2. I'll give it a couple of months and if it isn't better by spring time, I'm putting in an organic disc.2002 Electron Blue Vette, 1SC, FE3/Z51, G92 3.15 gears, 308.9 RWHP 321.7 RWTQ (before any mods), SLP headers, Z06 exhaust, MSD Ignition Wires, AC Delco Iridium Spark Plugs, 160 t-stat, lots of ECM tuning
1995 Z28, many mods, SOLD
A proud member of the "F-Body Dirty Dozen"
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Originally posted by Jeff 95 Z28I put in a Centerforce flywheel this weekend. The vibration is a little better but it's by no means gone. It still chatters on start and stops. It's worse in reverse. A little during shifts depending on fast your trying to shift. I wish I had gone with the Spec stage 1 clutch instead of the stage 2. I'll give it a couple of months and if it isn't better by spring time, I'm putting in an organic disc.
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Originally posted by Joe 1320I wish I could test drive it and feel what it's doing. It makes me wonder if there is enough pressure to hold the disc down properly. The Spec clutch is more aggressive, but a stage 2 shouldn't chatter. Any worse when you get some heat in it?
I haven't notice any difference when it might be warm or cold.
I think the pressure plate is not parallel to the flywheel. I got mad at it before I ripped it apart and rode the clutch with the emergency brake on trying to wear the high spot off. It left a colored mark on the flywheel and pressure plate. It's only in 1 spot. It should have gotten hot all the around it. This tells me the pressure plate surface is not parallel to the flywheel surface.
I'm going to drive it for a while and see how it does. I'm tired of working on it. I have an addition to my home that I am trying to work on. It's a 750 sq foot master suite. A 15'X 27' bedroom, 10'X 10' closet with a 4' sky light, a 5'X 10' utility room extension, and a 17' long bathroom with 2 4' long skylights, corner tub, and a 7'X 7' walk in shower. Everything has vaulted ceilings. It's been keeping me busy.2002 Electron Blue Vette, 1SC, FE3/Z51, G92 3.15 gears, 308.9 RWHP 321.7 RWTQ (before any mods), SLP headers, Z06 exhaust, MSD Ignition Wires, AC Delco Iridium Spark Plugs, 160 t-stat, lots of ECM tuning
1995 Z28, many mods, SOLD
A proud member of the "F-Body Dirty Dozen"
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I'd call Spec and let them know what's going on and how much trouble you've been through trying to fix this problem. They may send you a replacement as long as you send yours back after you fix your car. Those guys up there are really nice, and it wouldn't hurt anything to try.
I know how you feel on the stalling the car thing. I did the same thing when I put mine in. I've had a couple of people drive my car and buy Spec II because of how tough it feels when it grabs. All of us run nitrous cars and have had zero problems with our clutches so far."No, officer, that bottle is my onboard Halon system"
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Originally posted by Jeff 95 Z28I think the pressure plate is not parallel to the flywheel. I got mad at it before I ripped it apart and rode the clutch with the emergency brake on trying to wear the high spot off. It left a colored mark on the flywheel and pressure plate. It's only in 1 spot. It should have gotten hot all the around it. This tells me the pressure plate surface is not parallel to the flywheel surface.
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Well to add insult to injury, I pull out on PIB just now and floor it. It gets up to about 3500 RPM and starts vibrating. Same vibration in all gears over about 3500 RPMs. So I pulled into a parking space, put it in neutral and rev it up with the clutch in. Around 3500 RPMs it starts vibrating. It' vibrates through the red line. It feels like the new flywheel is not balanced correctly. You know I don't expect to get crappy parts when I pay $500 for a clutch and pressure plate and $350 for a flywheel. This is ridiculous. I got the good stuff too. If I don't fix it, it will probably take out the crank bearings. If I could afford it, I'd trade it.2002 Electron Blue Vette, 1SC, FE3/Z51, G92 3.15 gears, 308.9 RWHP 321.7 RWTQ (before any mods), SLP headers, Z06 exhaust, MSD Ignition Wires, AC Delco Iridium Spark Plugs, 160 t-stat, lots of ECM tuning
1995 Z28, many mods, SOLD
A proud member of the "F-Body Dirty Dozen"
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Update
I sent Centerforce an e-mail about the flywheel. This is the response I got back from them. I thought LT1s were internally balanced. Why would the flywheel/flex plate have to be balanced to the crank?
In reply to your e-mail, Our flywheel's and clutch assemblies are
balanced to a detroit specification. If you are experiencing a engine
vibration/out of balance condition, (not a motion vibration), the only
proper way to convert a LT1 engine from a automatic to a stick shift
vehicle is, match the balance of the flex plate from the engine and
duplicate this balance into the flywheel being installed onto the
engine. Originally LT1 camaro/firebird vehicle equipped with a stick
shift had a X or yellow paint dab on the flywheel which required the
yellow mark from the pressure to be aligned to the balancing mark
provided on the flywheel the proper balancing, being you converted this
vehicle from a automatic to stick shift, you have no reference mark with
our aftermarket flywheel, thus being possible cause of vibration.2002 Electron Blue Vette, 1SC, FE3/Z51, G92 3.15 gears, 308.9 RWHP 321.7 RWTQ (before any mods), SLP headers, Z06 exhaust, MSD Ignition Wires, AC Delco Iridium Spark Plugs, 160 t-stat, lots of ECM tuning
1995 Z28, many mods, SOLD
A proud member of the "F-Body Dirty Dozen"
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Well there ja go! All you have to do is pull the tranny, pull the flywheel... rotate one bolt hole to the left and reassemble. Try it out. Repeat as necessary. Or go back to the automatic.
Things to do in your spare time.The Old Guy! '94 z-28, m-6, t-tops, go-fast red, 316k. Now with '96 engine w/ Lt-4 hot cam, roller rockers, heavy duty timing chain, and Spec stage 2 clutch.
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Originally posted by peteWell there ja go! All you have to do is pull the tranny, pull the flywheel... rotate one bolt hole to the left and reassemble. Try it out. Repeat as necessary. Or go back to the automatic.
Things to do in your spare time.
I re-read his e-mail and I found a hole in it. I haven't sent it yet but here is my reply.
If that were the case, then pretend my car was originally a 6 speed car. It would have the mark on the flywheel. If I replaced it with a Centerforce, your flywheel doesn't have a mark to line up with the existing pressure plate. OK so I could set the 2 flywheels on top of each other and transfer the mark. But what if I used your flywheel and pressure plate. The pressure plate doesn't have a mark to line up either. You can't transfer the mark because you can index it 120 and 240 degrees and it will bolt on the flywheel. It is not keyed to only go on 1 way. It is neutral balanced.
The LT1 engine is an internally balanced engine. We both know that means it requires no external counterweights to balance it. That means the flywheel/flex plate are neutral balanced also. They have weights to make them neutral. Centerforce drills holes in the outside perimeter to remove weight to balance them. They are supposed to be neutral balanced. Mine feels like it is not properly balanced. I said in my first e-mail that the vibrations come on about 3500 RPMs. Actually it's more like 2200 RPMs.2002 Electron Blue Vette, 1SC, FE3/Z51, G92 3.15 gears, 308.9 RWHP 321.7 RWTQ (before any mods), SLP headers, Z06 exhaust, MSD Ignition Wires, AC Delco Iridium Spark Plugs, 160 t-stat, lots of ECM tuning
1995 Z28, many mods, SOLD
A proud member of the "F-Body Dirty Dozen"
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