Why GM continues to fail....

[markd79ta]

The Chevy Volt was promising until they released the probable pricing. $40K is just too much money to spend if the very reason I'd buy that car is to save money.

Actually, the Volt is a consideration for me. It really depends on their durability and warranty. My wife and I drive about 50,000 miles per year, which is a lot of money spent on fuel. The difference in the payment for the Volt is offset by a large margin given the cost of fuel…about $1,000 when gas was $4pg . If the cap and trade bill is passed and signed, we can expect the price of gas to double if we are lucky. My first choice is a Jetta TDI, but with the cap and trade idiocy, the Volt is the way to go even at 40K. Again, that all depends on durability and the warranty given. If the cost of maintenance is too high then it doesn’t make sense.

In 2005, I would have traded my 4th gen for a new Camaro instead of buying the Jeep…not today…it doesn’t make sense.

[Joe 1320]

I'm seriously considering a few different options....

The new Camaro. I want to hold out for a convertible, but the whole dealer rape thing has me turned off. Every dealer down here in Florida that I run across is adding $2500+ minimum to the sticker price just for "fair market adjustment" and that BS needs to stop. GM makes good cars, their dealership network are a bunch of BS ripoff artists that are ruining the manufacturer's ability to sell cars. I have one staring me in the face every day.... a yellow SS, black leather.... over $40K and for that, there she sits.

the Volt. Since my daily commute is 22 miles on a slow day, 30 miles on a day with errands, I would rarely ever visit the gas pump. Over $40K sticker price is shocking........ LOL. I've been wanting electric for 10 years now, to me the idea is great.

the new Challenger. Not the fastest, but looks more like the original and is still a very solid and good performing ride. A big plus is the dealerships down here aren't trying to rape the public like their GM counterparts.

[markd79ta]

The new Camaro. I want to hold out for a convertible, but the whole dealer rape thing has me turned off. Every dealer down here in Florida that I run across is adding $2500+ minimum to the sticker price just for "fair market adjustment" and that BS needs to stop. GM makes good cars, their dealership network are a bunch of BS ripoff artists that are ruining the manufacturer's ability to sell cars. I have one staring me in the face every day.... a yellow SS, black leather.... over $40K and for that, there she sits.

...and then they wonder why the car undersells The market adjustment of my car was close to 30k back in '97 for a black 6sp. I waited over two years to pay 24K for it. I refuse to pay over MSRP. If you want the new Camaro, just wait...they will come down after they sit on the lot awhile. My next new car will be purchased in 3-4 years to retire my wife's Jeep...I will see what happens then.

[Steel2686]

Mark - If your commutes are 50K a year, then the Volt definitely makes sense as long as it's a decent warranty. My commute is 12 miles a day, so the $40K sticker price (and inevitable dealer markup Joe referred to) would take a very long time to recover for me.

Joe - All great choices. The dealer markups are one of the main reasons I never even bothered looking at the Camaro. I'll take a look in the spring if I'm ready for a weekend warrior again, but I doubt the fanfare slows before then. The Challenger is a sweet ride. I had the pleasure of riding shotgun in one last month. The interior is pretty impressive. However, the car actually felt pretty big, at least to me. It's also the heaviest of the three and the handling suffers a bit from it. Still, it's not really meant for the twisties anyway.

Something got into me when I drove that Mustang. It could certainly use a bit more power, but a few bolt-on mods would have it powerful enough to get me in trouble if I wanted. It handled smoothly and felt great just driving it. I'll give it the winter and try again in the spring to see if I still feel the same way.

[Joe 1320]

Something got into me when I drove that Mustang. It could certainly use a bit more power, but a few bolt-on mods would have it powerful enough to get me in trouble if I wanted. It handled smoothly and felt great just driving it. I'll give it the winter and try again in the spring to see if I still feel the same way.

I drove one that a coworker owns. his is a dark red metallic GT with an automatic. It made some nice noises but I also felt it to be just a little underpowered for my taste. It seemed tight and had great manners. The interior wasn't objectionable, I really can't complain about anything. Perhaps a negative would be that any direction that you look while driving, there is a mustang in your field of view. The things are all over the place. The Saleen looked sweet but they can kiss my differential on that sticker price.

[Al 96 Ram Air T/A]

Also, something to add about the Volt (as it is on my short list as well)...

The $40K price is not even confirmed, according to the latest interview with Lutz. It's the press number...

Let's also not forget...the car is slated to receive a $7,500 federal rebate. I'm anticipating it coming in at around $30 - $35K with all options. The way I figure my commute, I may need to use fuel stabilizer, as I can go to and from work on a charge, then recharge over night for about $1 in electricity.

Not bad, as I now spend $30 per week (or $1,500 per year) on gas. Over 5 years, that's $7,500...assuming gas is still $2.50 per gallon. If it rises to over $4, I'm looking at a 5 year fuel savings of over $12,000. (and that's after I figure electricity costs too)

The economics are tempting...

[Joe 1320]

Also, something to add about the Volt (as it is on my short list as well)...

The $40K price is not even confirmed, according to the latest interview with Lutz. It's the press number...

Let's also not forget...the car is slated to receive a $7,500 federal rebate.

The economics are tempting...

I fully expect that if a $7500 federal rebate is in place, they will hike the price accordingly in order to boost their profits.

[Wild Willy]

...Perhaps a negative would be that any direction that you look while driving, there is a mustang in your field of view. The things are all over the place...

There is a reason for that- they are popular, and Ford had been cranking them out for all the years that you couldn't buy a GM pony car. Not a bad vehicle, by any stretch- yes, Camaro felt a little nicer, and had better powertrain options, but even in the 4th gen, the 6-cylinders outsold the V-8. Lots of people want the sporty appearance without the gas mileage to back it up.

While I can't fault the dealers for wanting to make as much as they can, maybe they should try to sell volume at a lower price, rather than trying to make a killing on each car they sell. Better for them, and GM, if they made only $200 on each car, and sold several a week, than make $2000 on the car, and sold one a month-

[Steel2686]

I drove one that a coworker owns. his is a dark red metallic GT with an automatic. It made some nice noises but I also felt it to be just a little underpowered for my taste. It seemed tight and had great manners. The interior wasn't objectionable, I really can't complain about anything. Perhaps a negative would be that any direction that you look while driving, there is a mustang in your field of view. The things are all over the place. The Saleen looked sweet but they can kiss my differential on that sticker price.

I can agree on all your points. The car is definitely a bit underpowered. I figured a few bolt-ons would get it powerful enough to carry me through the balance of it's warranty. Mustangs are everywhere. There is just no arguing that. Still, I turn my head when I see one if it's a nice color combination. I ahve a couple colors in mind. One being the deep blue with a white racing stripe.

Ford did a good job with giving the consumer tons of factory customization options with the 2010 Mustang. A local dealer has seven Mustang GT's on the lot and not one of them is the same. Hoods, side scoops (non-functioning ), glass roof, four spoiler options (five if you count the spoiler delete option), six different wheel/tire packages, 22 stripe options, etc... I had a lot of fun at the dealer last week just virtually building the car

Al - Great point about the rebate. I should have factored that in, although Joe also brings up an issue. It will be GM dealerships selling the car, so GM dealer tactics are in play. It would not surprise me to see these cars selling for $45K and up in the first two years of production. I'm keeping my eye on the Volt. Good looking car unlike most ultra-fuel savers (Prius, Insight )