The Goat

[markd79ta]

I can respect that position....Ive talked to many Pontiac guys with your position. I just think we are shooting ourselves in the foot, because we dont have an f-body anymore......besides the GTO, its just the Corvette; and I know I'll probably never afford one of those.....if we poo poo the Goat, we may be left with nothing but the vette.

I think GM shot themselves in the foot. Personally, I am not willing to use my hard earned money on their mistakes. I leaned in this direction for awhile and waited, but Loyalty only goes so far. They need a reality check, and their current financial woes is the best medicine for them right now. I totally understand how you feel, but they need to know our discontent. Is the new GTO awful, no; but they can do better and be more mindful of their faithful. I think we deserve better. I, for one, am not going to drop what I slave for everyday for anything less then what I want.

[PRPLHZE]

I think this is a great discussion to have. And commend everyone on their respectfulness.
I do have a question, only out of curiousity, for the nay sayers of the GTO design. "What design would be appropriate to be badged as a GTO"... I am curious to see what designs everyone would want to make it acceptable.

[riceeaterfordbeater]

gas
tires
oil

that is what the gto's nickname has become over the years with only 8k on the odometer ive gone through a full set of tires from burnouts and drifting ive done 3 oil changes due to the light coming on and asking for more and about 800 bucks of gas have gone into the tank. if the new gto doesnt live up to that old legend i dont know what does thats new anyway

[Performin Norman]

I think this is a great discussion to have. And commend everyone on their respectfulness.
I do have a question, only out of curiousity, for the nay sayers of the GTO design. "What design would be appropriate to be badged as a GTO"... I am curious to see what designs everyone would want to make it acceptable.

With any badge that carries over from a muscle car, I like to see some of the older styling incorporated into the newer car. If they were a muscle car, they should look strong and bold. ie. The Mustang incorporates similar headlight, taillight and side insert characteristics while still utilyzing some newer car features. I don't dislike the GTO, as someone already said above, I just think they could have done better. It's a legendary name, make it a bolder style.

I think Chrysler dropped the ball on the Charger. I'm ashamed of them for using the Charger name on that car. However, like I said before, they only care about money and we care about other things. They need to figure out what appeals to the masses because we are the ones writing their pay checks. PERIOD!

[SteveH95Formula]

With any badge that carries over from a muscle car, I like to see some of the older styling incorporated into the newer car.

Retro shemetro...This old/new style is like beating a dead "horse" I personly never liked the mid seventies Mudstains. The first gens are the only ones they should have came out with.
Peronaly I hope the new Camaro isnt retro looking. Its time the auto designers came up with new designs instead of the same old styles that they had. Not that they where bad but its time for the style changes to move on.

And if the GTO is an "import" that is just the times we live in. We get things cheaper (not better) in other countires. I'm not saying its good but that seems the tread nowadays.

[Rob]

With any badge that carries over from a muscle car, I like to see some of the older styling incorporated into the newer car. If they were a muscle car, they should look strong and bold. ie. The Mustang incorporates similar headlight, taillight and side insert characteristics while still utilyzing some newer car features. I don't dislike the GTO, as someone already said above, I just think they could have done better. It's a legendary name, make it a bolder style.

What is different about the new GTO from the old? A GTO really didn't look anything different than the Tempest/LeMans. Other than a fake hood scoops and some tail pipe tips, it really wasn't anything different or muscular. The only real "flashy" GTO was the Judge. And it came out 6 years later and only for 2 years. A GTO back then blended in with all the other cars, nothing flashy about that.

And before anybody bashes me, we had a 65 tri-power when I was a kid that Dad bought brand new

[Joe 1320]

The comment that I hear most is the styling or the lack of. It has all the right parts except looks and weight. The biggest problem with the whole GTO concept is that we are comparing it to yesterday. Years back, the GTO was a step up from the Tempest line. Today we don't have anything similar to the original Tempest, that being a rear wheel drive coupe with a couple of different powertrains. Drop in the scorching motor and call it the GTO. Had that original concept been applied today, there would have been a warmer reception. Why? If the platform looks decent and sells reasonably well with a dog of a powertrain, the enthusiasts will beat the doors down to buy the performance variants. With today's GTO, that's all there is. No other models for people to see on a regular basis to help stimulate sales. Not to mention that the non performance variants in quantity ensure the continued life of the platform while the performance variants help drive up the profit margin of the retail dealers.

The whole thing is a mess, for sure.

[wolfdogs]

The comment that I hear most is the styling or the lack of. It has all the right parts except looks and weight. The biggest problem with the whole GTO concept is that we are comparing it to yesterday. Years back, the GTO was a step up from the Tempest line. Today we don't have anything similar to the original Tempest, that being a rear wheel drive coupe with a couple of different powertrains. Drop in the scorching motor and call it the GTO. Had that original concept been applied today, there would have been a warmer reception. Why? If the platform looks decent and sells reasonably well with a dog of a powertrain, the enthusiasts will beat the doors down to buy the performance variants. With today's GTO, that's all there is. No other models for people to see on a regular basis to help stimulate sales. Not to mention that the non performance variants in quantity ensure the continued life of the platform while the performance variants help drive up the profit margin of the retail dealers.

The whole thing is a mess, for sure.

u been readin too many of dem dar college books again.............

[raroZ28]

Raro, I hate to be the barer of bad news, but unless you have more mods than what youre showing in your sig, Woflie's GTO is gonna eat your peanut butter and jelly. Ive only driven the 04, but that WILL outrun an LT1....never mind the 05. The 05 will be a good match against all but the fastest factory freak LS1 WS6's and SS's........with the IRS, it will outhandle your camaro and its solid rear axle.

I own a 69 GTO and I would be happy to have an 05 sitting next to it in the garage. Is it all that I had hoped for as a retro machine? No, but its still one hell of a car......and it puts the new Crustang GT to shame in the performance categories. The new Hemi charger wont touch it either.....the GTO is still king of the streets.....and thats what matters. I cant believe, we, as GM guys are complaining about a rear wheel drive, IRS, LS2, 400+HP, muscle car! What the heck is wrong here? Just because its imported? HELLOOOO! Everything you see on the roads now a days is at least partially imported from countries doing it cheaper....this isnt the 60's. Even if it was.....what was the original GTO...before the days of "The Judge"? Its was a freakin tempest - a family car that John Delorean stuffed a 389 with a tri-power in. It wasnt flashy. It looked like everything else on the street, but would suck your headlights out at the stop light......same thing with the new GTO. People who say it doesnt match up to the original GTO, dont know what the original was all about.

I'm somewhat insulted that you think I'm stupid enough to believe I could take an 05 GTO in my current state. I do have more mods than the sig says, that's outdated and I'm too lazy to change it out. Don't worry, you are not the barer of anything. I didn't say "Next summer" just for the hell of it. Did you say that just to come to Wolf's defense or something? I don't understand... I will be doing a valve job w/oversize valves, fully ported heads and I'll be cammed. I have the springs, retainers, locks, seals, timing kit, etc... I just need to decide on a cam. I have a full bmr suspension. With what I have in mind I can see easy low 12's. I don't think there are many cars on the road that will keep up with me when I am done. I took a $600 hit with my other car dropping a valve. There went my cam and head work. Plus I bought a motorcycle. This coming winter the Camaro will be put away... When he comes out he will be a whole new monster.

Ken, I think the part you are not realizing, is that you are feeling that you need to try and make people feel differently about the GTO, and you are getting offended and jumping on the defense. Go to a Mustang forum and bring up the Camaro or something. See what happens. If you want to hear everyone praise the GTO then go to a GTO forum. Otherwise, let other people share their opinion and don't say anything. People do not need to be persuaded by you. It isn't going to work. Nobody is going to see the GTO differently because you argue with them over how much you like it, and what you like about it. Contradict everything I say if you want. But I still think the GTO is ugly. Sorry Looks like a chick car to me. Way too bland... Grand AM...... Shame on pontiac.

BTW, I Don't think anybody ever said it doesn't have balls to the wall power, because it does. But it takes more than that to make a car-a car that people are going to love. I don't think you'll see a site like this in 10 years dedicated to that car, like there is this forum.

[wolfdogs]

I'm somewhat insulted that you think I'm stupid enough to believe I could take an 05 GTO in my current state. I do have more mods than the sig says, that's outdated and I'm too lazy to change it out. Don't worry, you are not the barer of anything. I didn't say "Next summer" just for the hell of it. Did you say that just to come to Wolf's defense or something? I don't understand... I will be doing a valve job w/oversize valves, fully ported heads and I'll be cammed. I have the springs, retainers, locks, seals, timing kit, etc... I just need to decide on a cam. I have a full bmr suspension. With what I have in mind I can see easy low 12's. I don't think there are many cars on the road that will keep up with me when I am done. I took a $600 hit with my other car dropping a valve. There went my cam and head work. Plus I bought a motorcycle. This coming winter the Camaro will be put away... When he comes out he will be a whole new monster.

Ken, I think the part you are not realizing, is that you are feeling that you need to try and make people feel differently about the GTO, and you are getting offended and jumping on the defense. Go to a Mustang forum and bring up the Camaro or something. See what happens. If you want to hear everyone praise the GTO then go to a GTO forum. Otherwise, let other people share their opinion and don't say anything. People do not need to be persuaded by you. It isn't going to work. Nobody is going to see the GTO differently because you argue with them over how much you like it, and what you like about it. Contradict everything I say if you want. But I still think the GTO is ugly. Sorry Looks like a chick car to me. Way too bland... Grand AM...... Shame on pontiac.

BTW, I Don't think anybody ever said it doesn't have balls to the wall power, because it does. But it takes more than that to make a car-a car that people are going to love. I don't think you'll see a site like this in 10 years dedicated to that car, like there is this forum.

"Ken, I think the part you are not realizing, is that you are feeling that you need to try and make people feel differently about the GTO, and you are getting offended and jumping on the defense. Go to a Mustang forum and bring up the Camaro or something. See what happens. If you want to hear everyone praise the GTO then go to a GTO forum. Otherwise, let other people share their opinion and don't say anything. People do not need to be persuaded by you. It isn't going to work. Nobody is going to see the GTO differently because you argue with them over how much you like it, and what you like about it. Contradict everything I say if you want. But I still think the GTO is ugly. Sorry Looks like a chick car to me. Way too bland... Grand AM...... Shame on pontiac."
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

now..the part that YOU are not realizing is, the fact that all I'm doing is counter pointing, quite frankly ....I dont give a rats bu## if you like it or not, thats your choice....... and I don't want to "hear everyone praise the gto"...... again....I'm countering statements and voicing my opinion on the car..... plain and simple......dude. your'e talking to a guy that did a three way seat on his valves in the sink of his apartment in 1969 on his 396 68 Chevelle SS.....I've been in the trenches dude...more than once....

did'nt read my other posts here? i dont think you did......you keep lashing out at me on this "defending cr@p".... this is a discussion......cant you understand that?

get off the "persuaded" chit......I'm not trying to persuade anyone........

again......

I'm counter arguing about a car that I did quite a bit of research on before i forked out the bucks for it..... and expressing my opinion.....

you need to ditch your attitude on whats happening with this thread .....against me......

and for the record, white cars are bland.........


LOL........


see my point?


ps. dont forget one important thing.....the f body is gone. it may come back, but not as the f body we know today.... chances are it will be very simular in engineering to the gto...... but its still gm. there is nothing wrong with sharing info and comparison on THIS forum about gm muscle cars.....including vetts........ ill pass on going to the "mustang forums"....thanks.

[Z Ya Later]

I'm somewhat insulted that you think I'm stupid enough to believe I could take an 05 GTO in my current state. I do have more mods than the sig says, that's outdated and I'm too lazy to change it out. Don't worry, you are not the barer of anything. I didn't say "Next summer" just for the hell of it. Did you say that just to come to Wolf's defense or something? I don't understand... I will be doing a valve job w/oversize valves, fully ported heads and I'll be cammed. I have the springs, retainers, locks, seals, timing kit, etc... I just need to decide on a cam. I have a full bmr suspension. With what I have in mind I can see easy low 12's. I don't think there are many cars on the road that will keep up with me when I am done. I took a $600 hit with my other car dropping a valve. There went my cam and head work. Plus I bought a motorcycle. This coming winter the Camaro will be put away... When he comes out he will be a whole new monster.

Ken, I think the part you are not realizing, is that you are feeling that you need to try and make people feel differently about the GTO, and you are getting offended and jumping on the defense. Go to a Mustang forum and bring up the Camaro or something. See what happens. If you want to hear everyone praise the GTO then go to a GTO forum. Otherwise, let other people share their opinion and don't say anything. People do not need to be persuaded by you. It isn't going to work. Nobody is going to see the GTO differently because you argue with them over how much you like it, and what you like about it. Contradict everything I say if you want. But I still think the GTO is ugly. Sorry Looks like a chick car to me. Way too bland... Grand AM...... Shame on pontiac.

BTW, I Don't think anybody ever said it doesn't have balls to the wall power, because it does. But it takes more than that to make a car-a car that people are going to love. I don't think you'll see a site like this in 10 years dedicated to that car, like there is this forum.

Oh, I think I've got a car that will show you tail-lights when you're done he he he



Don't get too confident now .

As for the GTO, yeah, it does look like a Cavalier on steroids. But, the handling is there and its got some juevos to back it up. But, its not the greatest thing around. The C6 or Z06 will spank it all day long, the GT500 will beat it too. However, they aren't as cheap as the GTO, however overpriced a dealer may be selling it for. Would it make its way into my driveway? Nah, probably not. Its not bad, but if I want to run that quick, the GN will toast it with less mods and a smaller budget. If I want something that will handle, I've still got the Z. The GTO does what it does well, but its far from perfect and definitely not as good looking as the Firebird was. That was the only Pontiac as of late that did not look like any other Pontiac. Granted, the original GTO did blend in more than it stood out back in the 60's...that was the point then, which is what Pontiac was probably going for now. I think the real issue here should be this...is this going to keep Pontiac in the game without the Firebird? No, I don't think it will. Its not attractive to enough prospective buyers to put it above the Mustang. If Pontiac were to bring back the Firebird as well and set it apart from the GTO, not as better or worse, but as its own type of car with awesome power, screamin' looks and a good price tag, Pontiac would be sittin' pretty. After all, the Firebird and the GTO were about as alike as apples and oranges. While the GTO isn't bad, it isn't great either...not what Pontiac needs to fight the Mustang. Just my thoughts.

[raroZ28]

Oh, I think I've got a car that will show you tail-lights when you're done he he he



Don't get too confident now .

As for the GTO, yeah, it does look like a Cavalier on steroids. But, the handling is there and its got some juevos to back it up. But, its not the greatest thing around. The C6 or Z06 will spank it all day long, the GT500 will beat it too. However, they aren't as cheap as the GTO, however overpriced a dealer may be selling it for. Would it make its way into my driveway? Nah, probably not. Its not bad, but if I want to run that quick, the GN will toast it with less mods and a smaller budget. If I want something that will handle, I've still got the Z. The GTO does what it does well, but its far from perfect and definitely not as good looking as the Firebird was. That was the only Pontiac as of late that did not look like any other Pontiac. Granted, the original GTO did blend in more than it stood out back in the 60's...that was the point then, which is what Pontiac was probably going for now. I think the real issue here should be this...is this going to keep Pontiac in the game without the Firebird? No, I don't think it will. Its not attractive to enough prospective buyers to put it above the Mustang. If Pontiac were to bring back the Firebird as well and set it apart from the GTO, not as better or worse, but as its own type of car with awesome power, screamin' looks and a good price tag, Pontiac would be sittin' pretty. After all, the Firebird and the GTO were about as alike as apples and oranges. While the GTO isn't bad, it isn't great either...not what Pontiac needs to fight the Mustang. Just my thoughts.

Steve, no fair man, GN's don't count

Those cars are just too damn quick...

[Z Ya Later]

Steve, no fair man, GN's don't count

Those cars are just too damn quick...

But...but...but...its just a six

['01WSsick]

I agree it, it really doesnt to the GTO name any justice. But if your looking for more of a quick luxury car then thats the way to go. They definately dont drive like a traditional american sports car.

[gimp19]

I think if I had the money and was looking 4 a brand new summer car id definatly consider a gto, I like the sleeper look just not to fond of the fact that it looks like every other pontiac. anyone think they would do better with n/a v-6 and awd models? although i think n/a v-6 sports cars are a waste part of the gto's problem is that it has no options or standout features. they should have atleast made a engine 455 unique to it, or badged it a gn and put a turbo 3.8 in i'd be saving my pennies right now