Mustang -vs- Camaro

[Jeff_in_Atl]

I have to stir the pot just because I can.

The definition of cheating is supercharging a factory equiped car. Lets go down the list here.

Buick Grand National
Pontiac Grand Prix
Ford Mustang Cobra
Ford Mustang SVO (week compaired to todays 4 cyl I know)
Chryslers too many 4 bangers to list but some would screem
Can I throw the Callaway cars in there? No not factory but wow

[markd79ta]

Originally posted by TODD 2000 V6 CAMARO
Yes, it is stock with the blower. Yes, it comes with that much HP. But, what do most manufacturers do when they want to up the HP of a model without spending too much money on say, making the engine it'self better? They put a supercharger on it...i.e. Ford Focus SVT, the soon to come supercharged Impala SS, Grand Prix GTP...etc. I just think it is far too often a cop out by manufacturers to get more horspower out of a weak engine.

The DOHC 4.6 is actually a REALLY good engine supercharged or otherwise...there is no doubt about that. I would buy the Marauder with this motor if it wasn't for the fuel tank problems in those. The SOHC 4.6 in the GT is a big turd. The 8.8" F.O.R.D. 9 inch rear also kicks butt, and so does the trannys. The real problem with the Mustang is in the engineering of the car itself...it is kinda a pile of... The GT can't produce much without a blower, and your statements are right on in that. If F.O.R.D. fixed the engineering probs with the Cobra (Mustang on roids), it would be an incredible car with that motor...change the pulley on the blower, and your well into the 400s, fix the McPherson system with a double wishbone along with the existing IRS, and it would carve up the streets, and relocate and shield the fuel tank, and it wouldn't burst into flames, ...then, us f-body guys would need to tuck tail and run.

[markd79ta]

Originally posted by Jeff 95 Z28
I have to stir the pot just because I can.

The definition of cheating is supercharging a factory equiped car. Lets go down the list here.

Buick Grand National
Pontiac Grand Prix
Ford Mustang Cobra
Ford Mustang SVO (week compaired to todays 4 cyl I know)
Chryslers too many 4 bangers to list but some would screem
Can I throw the Callaway cars in there? No not factory but wow

The '87 Buick Grand National GNX is the only 80s representative on the 50 fastest car list that is often cited. It was an incredible car, and often you see that 3.8 Turbo modified to run 8s and 9s. What an incredible car. Some minor tweaking of the turbo on the '89 TTA and it would make short work of most of the 4th gens. It was some pretty cool stuff, actually.

GNX Numbers

547 Produced
276 HP @ 4400 RPM
360 ft-lbs of torque at 3000 RPM

[Jeff_in_Atl]

I have to make a comment about the Mustang fuel tank thing. I delt with Mustangs for 15 years and I have seen some that were shortened by half and didn't blow up. There is a junkyard here in Winder http://www.stangparts.com/ who specializes in Mustangs and I have seen dozens just smashed to all heck and I have not seen 1 that burned. I have never heard of a single person who had one blow up from the fuel tank. Mine had a big metal plate between the gas tank and the rear bumper that wrapped up under the tank.

The thing I can't figure out is my mom's 92 Crown Vic has the gas tank over the axle not behind it just like the F-body. The trunk goes from the lid to the ground. You could sneak 4 people into a drive in in the trunk. I don't understand this fire problem unless they moved the tank from the 92 model. My mom had and 86 Grand Marquis which is the same as a Crown Vic and she got hit from the back. It hit so hard it pushed the bumper to where the rear axle was. The axle was smashed into the frame. It did not blow up or catch on fire.

[markd79ta]

Originally posted by Jeff 95 Z28
I have never heard of a single person who had one blow up from the fuel tank.

It is something like 200 people have been burned in Mustangs. The REALLY bad ones are the '66-'70 which were absolutely horrible cars. The tank is still in the crush zone. There are several pending lawsuits in relation to the post '94 model. I don't have the newspaper article handy, but one lady, I believe in a '95 was hit from behind...if I remember about a 25mph hit, almost the same as mine. It jammed her doors shut, and the gas tank ignited. 96% of her body was burned...she lived for a few days but eventually died; her family's lawsuit is still pending the last I heard. Most people either don't want to hear it, or they don't want to accept it, but the car is badly engineered...it sells because of the name. There is actually a fire shield and tank kit that you can buy from most of the classic Mustang parts stores for the '66-'70 models. Actually, this should be required for registration on those...what a POS.

Anyhow, it is your choice...I am just relaying the info. If I find my file, I will scan in some of the articles that I have clipped.

[markd79ta]

Originally posted by Jeff 95 Z28
My mom had and 86 Grand Marquis which is the same as a Crown Vic and she got hit from the back. It hit so hard it pushed the bumper to where the rear axle was. The axle was smashed into the frame. It did not blow up or catch on fire.

I remember reading this article in the paper. http://www.autosafety.org/article.php?scid=&did=357 All I can say is that the police didn't have these problems with the Caprice. I work in the state capitol of Colorado often with the State Patrol. They pretty much unanimously want the Caprice back.

[markd79ta]

Here is an interesting piece of trivia

This is classic F.O.R.D. My friend was cruising down the road in his '89 Lincoln Continental, and all of a sudden, he hears a loud crash, looses his steering, and brings his car to a stop...thankfully, without a collision. He looks under his car to discover half the front suspension and engine laying on the ground. I guess this setup on the Continental, Taurus, and Sable is prone to motor mounts rusting out of the car, and letting go in high salt states. Well, this is a Colorado car...home of no humidity or salt in the air, and the car had just under a 100,000 miles. I guess this is a recall item in Minnesota and some of the other high rust states. The dealership was like too bad, but my friend gave them the option of fixing the car or meeting with the attorney. F.O.R.D. decided to fix the car...I can't believe they do stuff like this. Anyhow, that pretty much ended any F.O.R.D. credibility in my book. My GMs have definitely had their problems, but I can say for every one of them that they will stay together, or otherwise not fall apart while I am going down the road.

[Rancid Crabbtree]

As of yet I haven't seen a fully stock internal LT1 or LS1 do this:
http://www.50mustangandsuperfords.co...38_0308_first/

[67'maro]

you know what the sad thing is about the svt cobra mustang is that it has 390hp super charged and it can't beat the c5 vette with 350 nonsupercharged hp. imagine what the z06 would do to it. I read this in a magazine.

[Jeff_in_Atl]

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...2_0305_cobvet/
Cobra 1/4 mile, sec @ mph 13.12 @ 109.58
Corvette 1/4 mile, sec @ mph 13.02 @ 109.59
Cobra Price as tested $38,170
Corvette Price as tested $56,265
So that is $18,095 for another .1 sec and .01 mph in the 1/4
But it did beat it but it is not an F-body Which an SS is about $5k less. A Z28 or GT about $5k less than that. A V6 about $5k less than that. A Honda Civic about $5k less than that.

Man the Mustang is 500 pounds heavier than the Corvette. That would more than make up for the difference in performance. I wonder what would happen if you cut the back seat out of the Cobra and shortened it to the length ov the Vette. It's not really an apples to apples comparison.

[PiercedJD]

Originally posted by Jeff 95 Z28
I have to stir the pot just because I can.

The definition of cheating is supercharging a factory equiped car. Lets go down the list here.

Buick Grand National
Pontiac Grand Prix
Ford Mustang Cobra
Ford Mustang SVO (week compaired to todays 4 cyl I know)
Chryslers too many 4 bangers to list but some would screem
Can I throw the Callaway cars in there? No not factory but wow

haven't been following this thread *that* much, but figured I would add to this list.

the turbo trans ams............. both the 3.8 GN motored ones and the old v8 slugs..................

and some of chryslers turbo 4 bangers were mitsubishi engines, like the 2.6 turbo in the conquest which is also popular as a caravan swap motor, and the 4g63 of course in the talons, and the 6g72 stealth motor.

dodge did have it's own moments of turbo 4 fury however with the turbo omni which was vastly underrated, and the dodge shadow and spirit R/T with the 2.5 t

the turbo lebarons I am still unconvinced on for a number of reasons, but that is another discussion all together.

can't forget the thunderbird turbo coupe, and merkur x4ti from the 2.3 turbo ford camp.

[NorthernSS]

I'm a die hard Chevy guy as much as all of you but I gained respect for the Mustang when I saw an 03 Cobra drop 470rwhp on the dyno. He had 10,000mi on it with nothing to big for mods. I think just bolt ons and pulley, but he wasn't around for too long to talk to. He was also pissed because I think that he was expecting around 500rwhp. My teeth rattle when I think about it. I also saw a 100% STOCK Lightning with 1500 mi drop 347rwhp and 450rwtq. I give respect where respect is due.

[HottestZ28]

Yes i agree that "the mustang can out handle a f-body", but with the comment that a modified car over a stock car would always win. i believe that basically a cobra is a modified Mustang from SVT i might be wrong but if GM would make a Special Vehical Team type of option for the F-body and the Y-body car would be far superior to the mustang, but the prices would skyrocket

[Dan B. 96 T/A]

He says he'll beat any camaro ever built?

Tell him he's got a lane with a Twin Turbo 98 Z28 on a 10" tire for $1k, heads up, hoods closed.

[Fast Mother]

How many 03' Cobras are you gonna' roll up to at a red light? You in an F-body= the streets are pretty much still yours.