NFB Why people soup up an econobox

[Jay 02 TA ws6]

Let me add this to the discussion...

...anytime anyone wants to rip on your pushrod, think about this:



Notice the engine on the right actually has MORE displacement despite its size.

That is the old 5.0L from the foxbodies sitting next to the new 4.6L in the Mach 1.

[DJ Taso]

You gotta love ricers, especially with their 500 hp+ Autozone intake filter and custom exhaust. W00t!

[Brandon]

I dont think anyone should rag on hondas. You can buy a 92 civic hatchback w/a shot engine for about $2000, then you spend about $5000 for a new engine/trans. For example (b18c5 w/lsd). That's an invesment of about 7 thousand and your running high 13's low 14's. This is going to be a car far more efficient and reliable than an LT1 for example. And on top of this it pisses people off alot more when they get beat by an econobox.

But for the most part they all have weak *** motors with big wings and exhausts. And like yall were saying if you dont tell the insurance company then they dont cover it if you get in a wreck. Also another advantage to an econobox like a civic is that if you upgrade brakes and suspension it makes for a good autoxing car.

[TraceZ]

Originally posted by Brandon
I dont think anyone should rag on hondas. You can buy a 92 civic hatchback w/a shot engine for about $2000, then you spend about $5000 for a new engine/trans. For example (b18c5 w/lsd). That's an invesment of about 7 thousand and your running high 13's. This is going to be a car far more efficient and reliable than an LT1 for example. And on top of this you have low insurance, and it pisses people off alot more when the get beat by an econobox.

But for the most part they all have weak ass motors with big wings and exhausts.

What is your point?

I could buy a 4th gen with a shot motor for $2000, spend $5,000 on engine, tranny and drag radials and go in the 12's all day. It'd hit 11 if you gave it a squirt.

If my life depended on it, I could get a Yugo down the 1320 in that time for that money with a motor swap and some creativity. Comparing a modified car to a stock one is not a valid comparison. I just drove to Florida and back, from Wisconsin. I averaged just over 25 mpg, and I was not babying it. A Honda cannot run down the interstate at 80mph and 2000 rpms in a .5 ratio overdrive with the exhaust rumbling low. The front drive n/a import scene cannot match the feel and sound of V8 rear wheel drive torque.

Insurance premiums are the only reason to go with the econobox. Basically that is admitting you cannot afford to drive the V8, definitely not saying the econobox is truely what you would rather drive.

If my modified Camaro could beat a brandnew stock Viper and cost tens of thousands less would that make my car more desirable than the Viper? NO. I'd rather have the Viper.

See my point?

It is human nature to tell yourself you are happy with what you can afford. But... If you could afford more, you would jump on it.

I like my Camaro, but I will admit a Corvette is a better car. So is a Viper. I'm not going to try to fool myself into thinking my Camaro is better than a Vette. I'd be a fool. The same applys to the econobox. It has it's place... but is far from a really desirable car.

Dang... I just wrote a book. Goodnight.

[alenstein]

Hmmm, LT1 not reliable, i have 122k on the clock with stock tranny and no engine work, i say not bad. My 84' TA had 168K,with many of the emission components shot, still ran fine when I sold it, it was a work horse.

[Joe 1320]

Originally posted by TraceZ
I'm not going to try to fool myself into thinking my Camaro is better than a Vette.

That depends on your way of thinking. If you are going to take 3 friends with you on a road trip, the Camaro is a better car for that job. Ditto for insurance and replacement parts cost. So depending on how you think, yes you can.

[Joe 1320]

Originally posted by Brandon
For example (b18c5 w/lsd). That's an invesment of about 7 thousand and your running high 13's low 14's. This is going to be a car far more efficient and reliable than an LT1 for example

I've had imports that I raced, I know what you are attempting to say but it doesn't hold water. Yes you can buy a cheaper car, do an engine swap and think that it is more effecient. It may run quicker, but that doesn't mean more effecient.

A late model F-body with stock gears and rear can cuise at 80 mph at less than 1800 rpm. What will most imports tach at 80 mph? Considerably higher. That means more revolutions per mile, more fuel used, more vibrations, higher heat production and most likely similar mileage. It in the city driving where v8s loose ground on the mileage issue. Having done the import craze back before it was a craze, I started it 20 years ago and spent way too much money. The end result is to have a fast import you have to dump considerable cash, do considerable tuning and work only to end up with a car that is now stretched beyond what it was designed to do and things just don't work as well as they should. It is better to start with a performance platform to begin with. Then when you get tired of it and it goes for sale, you don't have tons of parts into a non performance platform (worth less $$) and you can't get your money back out of it.

So in the long run, it is not more effecient, peole just think it's fun to be able to beat a V8 with a 4 or 6. I know, I do it in my Buick GN all the time.

The other issue is that the rest of the world all cannot be crazy....... you rarely see someone search for an old used up import and lovingly resore it back to original condition. You see it with musclecars and sports cars, but not cookie cutter imnports like Hondas or Mitsubishi. So is the rest of the world nuts? Don't hink so. And I am not talking restoration by spray can or lime green graphics and carbon fiber hood either.

[Brandon]

Originally posted by Joe 1320

I've had imports that I raced, I know what you are attempting to say but it doesn't hold water. Yes you can buy a cheaper car, do an engine swap and think that it is more effecient. It may run quicker, but that doesn't mean more effecient.

It does hold water.

A late model F-body with stock gears and rear can cuise at 80 mph at less than 1800 rpm. What will most imports tach at 80 mph? Considerably higher. That means more revolutions per mile, more fuel used, more vibrations, higher heat production and most likely similar mileage. It in the city driving where v8s loose ground on the mileage issue.

Your wrong dude. An LT1 camaro gets like 17 city and 25 highway. While a b18c5 civic/teg gets 25 city and 31 highway. BTW 1800 would be a stupid rpm to try and get good gas mileage. Thats gonna give you worse mileage that if you cruised at 2500-3000. What is this "more vibrations and heat" stuff about? You are just trying to add stupid little things to make it sound like you are right.

Having done the import craze back before it was a craze, I started it 20 years ago and spent way too much money. The end result is to have a fast import you have to dump considerable cash, do considerable tuning and work only to end up with a car that is now stretched beyond what it was designed to do and things just don't work as well as they should. It is better to start with a performance platform to begin with. Then when you get tired of it and it goes for sale, you don't have tons of parts into a non performance platform (worth less $$) and you can't get your money back out of it.

They dont have better resale but when you part out your perfomance parts you will make alot more money than just selling it modified. People do that all the time. For the most part imports have better resale because most people believe that they last longer

So in the long run, it is not more effecient, peole just think it's fun to be able to beat a V8 with a 4 or 6. I know, I do it in my Buick GN all the time.

So in the long run it is more effecient.

The other issue is that the rest of the world all cannot be crazy....... you rarely see someone search for an old used up import and lovingly resore it back to original condition. You see it with musclecars and sports cars, but not cookie cutter imnports like Hondas or Mitsubishi. So is the rest of the world nuts? Don't hink so. And I am not talking restoration by spray can or lime green graphics and carbon fiber hood either.

Yeah and muscle cars have also been around for 40 years.

[Jay 02 TA ws6]

Brandon, have fun getting banned. And just for the record, I have observed 29 mpg highway cruising at 1700 RPMs.

[Brandon]

Originally posted by Jay 02 TA ws6
Brandon, have fun getting banned. And just for the record, I have observed 29 mpg highway cruising at 1700 RPMs.

Why would I get banned? It would be a pretty weak reason to bann a person.

[Jay 02 TA ws6]

Because you called a moderator stupid on a board that doesn't put up with childish insults and namecalling... especially not to someone who has a lot of knowledge about what he is talking about and has the utmost respect from the members here.

[wako29]

Originally posted by Jay 02 TA ws6
Because you called a moderator stupid on a board that doesn't put up with childish insults and namecalling... especially not to someone who has a lot of knowledge about what he is talking about and has the utmost respect from the members here.

yep.

Brandon, sorry, you don't know what your talking about. Getting better mileage at 80mph by going to higher revs is one of the stupidest things I've heard. Please apologize for being so ignorant in your posts, as that is what I am seeing.

[Brandon]

Yeah I edited out the stupid part, I was just like dont be stupid. I wasnt trying to piss him off.

[Brandon]

Originally posted by wako29
yep.

Brandon, sorry, you don't know what your talking about. Getting better mileage at 80mph by going to higher revs is one of the stupidest things I've heard. Please apologize for being so ignorant in your posts, as that is what I am seeing.

Good idea, lets all run around at 100rpm and lug our engines cause we get better gass mileage.

[Jay 02 TA ws6]

Originally posted by Brandon
Good idea, lets all run around at 100rpm and lug our engines cause we get better gass mileage.

I'm not going to waste much more time with this...

... I observe about 29 mpg when I travel 70 mph at about 1650 RPM.

I observe about 26 mpg when I cruise 80-85 at 1900 RPMs or so...

You stay in the lower gears while you are accelerating, sure. Once you hit cruise, you shift to thehigh gear. Yes, trying to accelerate in a higher gear often sucks more gas than a lower gear would... so downshift when you have to accelerate.