NFB - The existance of evil

[TraceZ]

Originally posted by jspeed97
If you remove Humans from the equation, does Evil still exist? In other words, if only the animals were left, does Evil still remain?

On Earth, only humans have the gift of independant thought. We can decide to use it as we wish, for good or for evil.

Without humans, evil would exist, but we would not be here to act on it. It would have no instramant to show itself, but it would still exist.

[Cade93TA]

If you remove Humans from the equation, does Evil still exist? In other words, if only the animals were left, does Evil still remain?

That reminds me of a story in the Bible where Jesus drove some demons out of two men into a heard of pigs. The pigs when psyco and stampeded into a lake and died. (Matthew 8:28-34)
That tells me that evil can exist in animal form but I don't think they can't to much good (evil) in animal form.

cade

[Jeff_in_Atl]

Originally posted by Cade93TA
That reminds me of a story in the Bible where Jesus drove some demons out of two men into a heard of pigs. The pigs when psyco and stampeded into a lake and died. (Matthew 8:28-34)
That tells me that evil can exist in animal form but I don't think they can't to much good (evil) in animal form.

cade

This will inflame some people but I wouldn't treat the bible as an encyclopedia of facts.

[Cade93TA]

This will inflame some people but I wouldn't treat the bible as an encyclopedia of facts.

Well, to me the Bible has never been proven wrong. I will always use it as and encyclopedia of facts, especially when discussing Good vs. Evil.
Just giving my reason for using the Bible in this discussion.

I didnt mean for this discussion to go on a tangent.

cade

[Jeff_in_Atl]

Originally posted by Cade93TA
Well, to me the Bible has never been proven wrong. I will always use it as and encyclopedia of facts, especially when discussing Good vs. Evil.
Just giving my reason for using the Bible in this discussion.

I didnt mean for this discussion to go on a tangent.

cade

LOL I could really hijack this thread. Prove that Genesis is factually correct. Ya can't. They call it faith. You either have it or you don't.

[RangerBob]

A Game of`Philosophy

[N20LT4Bird]

Originally posted by Jeff 95 Z28
LOL I could really hijack this thread. Prove that Genesis is factually correct. Ya can't. They call it faith. You either have it or you don't.

You could make a pretty good arguement for it.........prove that its not fact......you cant. Youre right about one thing - you either have faith or you dont. If you dont want to beleive it, your not going to - the Bible doesnt mean anything. But to those that do believe - we KNOW it the truth.


1 Corinthians 2:14:
"The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned."

[TODD 2000 V6 CAMARO]

Without humans, evil would exist, but we would not be here to act on it. It would have no instramant to show itself, but it would still exist. [/B][/QUOTE]

That is a pretty profound statement, and very true. It is interesting to hear it from someone who is an athiest (if I remember right, am I right, Tracy?) Anyway, the reason I say that is because that is something I believe as a Christian, that evil exists and manifests it'self through us as humans. Evil, of course being from Satan, the devil, Beelzebub,etc. We all have the capacity for evil being that we are born into sin. But the "good" side of things of course come form God, who delivers us from sin. The bible says it it'self, I can't remember the exact verse, but something to the effect that battles between good and evil aren't fought by flesh and blood, but by Angels and Demons, basically. And we just tend to be the tools they fight with, so to speak. That is why the bible refers to the word as our sword and shield, because we are to fight off temptation with knowledge of the word. I'm not trying to preach, just interesting stuff in my opinion. Anyway, I think this thread is dying off, just thought I would pipe in.

[TraceZ]

That is a pretty profound statement, and very true. It is interesting to hear it from someone who is an athiest (if I remember right, am I right, Tracy?) [/B][/QUOTE]

I read no religion into evil. We all know right from wrong, religion aside. Evil is to willingly do wrong, and love it. Any intelligent being capable of making a choice could do this, Human or not. If humans were to disappear, there will still be evil in other intelligent lifeforms elsewhere.... Maybe not on earth.

Evil is in all of us, it is the possibility to do bad things. Most of us never entertain the notions of evil, thankfully.

Good is in all of us also, and believe it or not, Humans in general are pretty good at being good to eachother.

[WICKED LT1]

Re: Re: Interesting question....

Originally posted by Jeff 95 Z28
Why not. My wife says because there has to be a balance. Who says the world has to be in balance. It much easier to identify bad than good. Just watch the news. I don't see the paradox.

I agree with your wife. Just because it is easier to identify does not mean that having one signs you up for the other as well. The News is a bad example because good things usually do not increase ratings. Bad things do.

Just for everyone's information.
Paradox from www.m-w.com
1 : a tenet contrary to received opinion
2 a : a statement that is seemingly contradictory or opposed to common sense and yet is perhaps true b : a self-contradictory statement that at first seems true c : an argument that apparently derives self-contradictory conclusions by valid deduction from acceptable premises
3 : one that possesses seemingly contradictory qualities or phases



You can not identify something as "something" until you admit that "something" exist. Some people do not believe that evil exist. Those people can not identify something as evil if they don't feel evil exist. It's what the book is about.

I was actually presuming that evils exists. Not saying that it does not. I mearly suggested that we should accept it, and work to identify and balance it. The evil that does the most damage is not the blatant atrocirities, it is the small miniscule things that are hard to see. They eat away at you and make you compromise... Slowly, over time, they change what you percieve as good and evil. Every one will gasp at 9/11 as evil, but try to identify evil things in daily life. It's much more difficult.


p.s. Wow is this a hell of a topic for an automobile board. The good news is, it's still a reasonable discussion. I had a moment of concern when the religion got involved, but everybody's keepin it clean. This is usually an all out argument. good job guys/gals.


-Paul

[N20LT4Bird]

Re: Re: Re: Interesting question....

Originally posted by WICKED LT1

p.s. Wow is this a hell of a topic for an automobile board. The good news is, it's still a reasonable discussion. I had a moment of concern when the religion got involved, but everybody's keepin it clean. This is usually an all out argument. good job guys/gals.


-Paul

Thats whats pretty cool about this board. Most guys on it are pretty mature and thoughtful before they write. Thats the only reason I CAN bring religion into it.......the guys (and gals) here are pretty respectful. In the end we usually decide to agree to disagree.......but its fun debating a little bit.


P.S. How can you talk good vs. evil w/o mentioning God and "religion"?

[N20LT4Bird]

Originally posted by TraceZ


I read no religion into evil. We all know right from wrong, religion aside. Evil is to willingly do wrong, and love it. Any intelligent being capable of making a choice could do this, Human or not. If humans were to disappear, there will still be evil in other intelligent lifeforms elsewhere.... Maybe not on earth.

Evil is in all of us, it is the possibility to do bad things. Most of us never entertain the notions of evil, thankfully.

Good is in all of us also, and believe it or not, Humans in general are pretty good at being good to eachother. [/B]

My question for you TraceZ : DO you believe good and evil are abitrary? There is no set standard? And if there is a standard, who or what sets it?

[Camaro4-2]

Are you asking if evil exsists as a force...It really depends how you are defining it. If you define evil as a pattern of behaviors then of course it does. if you define it as some kind of cosmic force then thats debateable.

[TraceZ]

Originally posted by N20LT4Bird
My question for you TraceZ : DO you believe good and evil are abitrary? There is no set standard? And if there is a standard, who or what sets it?

I dont think there is a standard set by a diety. I do think common sense and kindness go a long way to define it. I think any intelligent being would be able to figure this out.. On earth or any other panet. It is really pretty simple:

If a civilization is to succed, it's members cannot commit hatefull or hurtfull acts twards their neighbors. Thus the base of the word "civil"

My phrase above pretty much defines evil to me. The phrase would be true, even if no intelligent life existed anywhere.

Maybe I should rephrase myself... I think the *potential* for evil would still exist even if mankind, or any other intelligent life did not exist.

[Jeff_in_Atl]

Originally posted by Camaro4-2
Are you asking if evil exsists as a force...It really depends how you are defining it. If you define evil as a pattern of behaviors then of course it does. if you define it as some kind of cosmic force then thats debateable.

If evil exist as a force then good exist as a force hence the phrase "may the force be with you". I beat you too it Timelord. he he he There are some here too young to know that phrase. Sorry I couldn't resist.