headers

[Injuneer]

Without a major power adder on the engine, the O2 sensors are valuable. The adjustments are way more than "minor"..... detecting lean conditions and being able to add up t0 25% extra fuel, or a rich condition and being able to deuct up to 15% would definitely be more than minor. With the MAF setup (94 and up 4th Gens) the long term fuel trims are what allows the PCM to adapt to the kinds of changes you make with bolt-ons. Detecting a lean condition in closed loop, and being able to carry over the extra fuel to the power enrichment mode could well be the thing that saves the engine.

Even a well done power adder car can use the benefit of wide-band sensors, feeding an aftermarket ECU and running closed loop... again, immediate response to changing conditions. There's a photo of a 1,300HP 383 blown engine in a 4th Gen at the bottom of this post, and that car runs dual wide-bands and the MoTeC M800 in closed loop. (Too bad he sold it.... he might "want some" ).

I run open loop, no O2 sensors because the 300-shot of nitrous requires a bit of leaded fuel, and the sensors aren't going to like the lead. But I've got more than 40 dyno pulls to back up the tuning, and give me a reasonable amount of confidence that the engine will still be running after each pass... . If I had the $$$$$ for the wide-band option on the MoTeC, and I didn't mind shelling out for new sensors every year, I think that would be the way I would prefer to run.

[raroZ28]

sorry for not specifying, Kevin. I see no reason to change the ECU on the camaro, I'm not trying to run anything crazy. To get into the low 12's on a conquest though it's just about mandatory to go new intake/ecu. I didn't mean going with a stand alone with no o2 on the camaro. Sorry I was just saying you can run with no o2s.

Fred.... All I can say about that engine...

Sweet!

[fastTa]

Fred, Nippondesnso has a O2 sensor that is aluminum oxide shielded and is supposed to be essentially "lead proof". It has been discussed on several other boards and the general consensus is that they work. Guys are claiming to have run a bunch of leaded fuel with these and no problems whatsoever. They make a OEM heated replacement and a 2 wire non-heated sensor for the LT1's.

[Injuneer]

GM High-Tech Performance magazine did a test of that narrow-band Denso sensor about a year ago. The first one crapped out on the first exposure to leaded fuel. The second one worked better, and they raved about it. I think Denso uses the word "resistant" on these, not "lead proof". They are supposed to tolerate roughly twice the lead exposure of "conventional" sensors. I know the standard sensors are rated at 50 hours exposure to lead.

My reference to poisoned sensors was to the wide-band sensors. They will tolerate some exposure to lead, but they will not last forever. At up to $350 each, replacement costs can be prohibitive.

I still have my OEM sensors in my exhaust system, mainly to plug the holes in the header collectors. I can read them on my ScanMaster. After 3 years of intermittent use, a lot of it with highly leaded (6 gr/gal) fuel, one of the them still appears to be reading/reacting correctly. The other one only puts out about 1/2 of the voltage it should be reading, based on wide-band comparison.

[Joe 1320]

The denso sensors are lead resistant, not lead proof. Us turbo buick guys have tried everything under the sun in the quest to run leaded fuel and have 02 sensors live. Some live for a few only a few passes, others seem to work for a few outings. the bottom line is lead will eventually coat the sensor and render it useless.

The only way is to not run leaded fuel and use other detonation reducing alternatives like serious octane and/or alcohol and propane injection.

On the other issue, I also vote for the combo of SLP shorties and Random Tech high flow Y pipe. Those two put me darned close to what long tubes would offer, but with better ground clearance and 50 state smog legal. On a street car with basic bolt ons and no power adders, it's a tough combo to beat. Now if you want to throw in a supercharger, turbo or nitrous, sure long tubes will give you more total flow. I still say the shorties and Y pipe are only a slight compromise in overall flow.

[fastTa]

When I finally get the money together to complete my LS6 turbo project, I am considering using a n20 kit converted for use to use a low pressure propane injection. N20 jets and solenoids can used with propane even though propane injection is generally at a much lower pressure. The trick is keeping the bottle of propane at a stable temperature as it is very sensitive to ambient air temp changes, especially on humid days.

Down here at Murillo Motorsports, they have tested a few turbo setups with the addition of propane injection and have had great success.

Alky/water injection is pretty common among the boosted crowd and is tried and trued, but I have seeing some very intersting things done with propane lately

[Eric 97LT4SS]

I have the same 1 5/8" JBA's on my LT4 but had no choice because CT now has to perform a visual inspection to look for the CARB #. Would have rather installed AS&M's because they are 1 3/4" but needed that smog number to pass Emissions. Just something to think about.

[Injuneer]

I have the same 1 5/8" JBA's on my LT4 but had no choice because CT now has to perform a visual inspection to look for the CARB #. Would have rather installed AS&M's because they are 1 3/4" but needed that smog number to pass Emissions. Just something to think about.

The SLP 1-3/4's for the dual-cat cars are "50 state apporved".

[96z28]

Well this thing sure got turned around. I was asking what headers I should get and I got educated on 02 sensors. Its fine thought cause I like to learn something new every day. Anyways I was planning on getting some long tubes and gettin rid of my cats. I basically want to get performance and make it louder. Right not it has a flowmaster (not by choice) it sounds ok but i hear those things really choke your exhaust. I want to slap a loud mouth on with my headers. So I will restate my question, who makes good long tubes that I can afford.

[scotts94_z28]

Hooker super comp long tubes

[96z28]

How much do these puppies cost?

Hooker super comp long tubes

[scotts94_z28]

around $450 i think

[fastTa]

The Hooker Super Comp 1 3/4's are $700 coated and with the o2 sensor bungs welded in.

The Jet Hots are basically a clone of the Hooker Super Comps but much better in quality. This is a fact not an opinion.

People have been saying lots of good things about the Pacesetter LT's for the LT1's also. And at $360 coated and with o2 bungs, you can't beat the price.