NFB: The Passion

[fastTa]

Very well said mixedpuppy. Talk about putting things into perspective.

Like Jay said in a previous post, the intent of this movie is an educational awakening not entertainment. And yes there will most likely be a substantial profit to be made from this movie, but so what? Is there anything wrong with a group of Christians making a profit. It is what is done with the money that is pertinent. Many, many Pastor's, Ministries, and Church's have long been known to sell Christian books, magazines, sermon videos, etc., etc.. They take these profits and use them for God's work. They give money to charities, they directly involve them selves with the reform of our greatly needed society, they help their own church members out with there utility bills, etc..

My point is this. If the original intent of this movie is to genuinely make a very bold statement, and to educate society on the biblically documented story of Jesus' time here on Earth, then every penny made from this movie is not made in vain but rather in God's purpose.

As far as the gore level is concerned, yes it has gotten way overboard in fictional movies. This movie in no way, shape, or form should be compared to the blood and guts depicted in a sci-fi or Schwartzenegger war drama. This movie WAS intended to shock people. The reality of what Jesus went through was REAL and was not pleasant. What was portrayed in this movie was meant to be as life-like as posssible so as to invoke within the watcher a very strong emotional observation and connection. This is how the best educator's and preachers teach because it works, simple as that.

We are afforded the luxury of simply being able to read these posts because of Jesus' sacrifice. Granted there may be some in here who don't believe in God, but it is very hard to ignore the very compelling historical facts as so stated in the Bible.

Originally posted by JOE 1320:

"I have spent more time in a church than virtually anyone excepting the nuns and priests. I literally grew up in the church. I don't choose to wear it on my sleeve and proclaim religious beliefs to the world, but I can say that I am very familiar with the principles."

Knowing "the principles" doesn't get you in to Heaven. God wants us to proclaim his beliefs to everyone. It is called witnessing.

Joe you also said "If we could take a trip back in time we could see the actual course of events, but that is impossible."

My friend, the Bible IS your trip back in time!

[TODD 2000 V6 CAMARO]

I haven't seen the movie yet, but I definitely do intend to, that is, if the churches around here can get enough signatures to convince the theater here to show it. Yes, that is what we will have to do to be able to see it where I am. It amazes me that this movie can be the subject of so much controversy because of the violence and gore depicted, while Terminator and other fictional movies are A-OK with their gore. I think it has more to do with the subject matter. As Mel Gibson said in his TV interview, "They don't have a problem with the movie, they have a problem with the four gospels." As a society we have gotten so far away from God that the very mention of Jesus or God is cause for controversy. Which isn't odd when you think about it: the bible itself says that the very sound of the name of Jesus will cause demons to flee.
Whether or not this movie should have been made can be measured against the number of souls who find Jesus as their lord and savior as a result of seeing it. If just one person is saved as a result, then every penny spent was not in vain. I agree completely that violence in movies has desensitized a nation, but like what has been stated already here, this this movie in based on TRUTH...a truth that can change lives and save souls. Praise God for someone like Mel Gibson who is willing to take the risk of making such an honest movie when there are so many who think he shouldn't have.

[Coop '02Z]

Wow

Very well put Todd..

how is everything?

[TODD 2000 V6 CAMARO]

Re: Wow

Hey Coop!
Things are good here, except for the fact that winter refuses to leave. How are things with you? Still at the same job?

[Joe 1320]

Originally posted by fastTA


Originally posted by JOE 1320:

"I have spent more time in a church than virtually anyone excepting the nuns and priests. I literally grew up in the church. I don't choose to wear it on my sleeve and proclaim religious beliefs to the world, but I can say that I am very familiar with the principles."

Knowing "the principles" doesn't get you in to Heaven. God wants us to proclaim his beliefs to everyone. It is called witnessing.

Joe you also said "If we could take a trip back in time we could see the actual course of events, but that is impossible."

My friend, the Bible IS your trip back in time!

What you missed is that I do not need nor invite a lecture about the Bible. Religion is such a heated topic anyway and I am trying my best to keep the religious implications out of my communications, especially being a moderator. To even infer that I need a lecture on what will get me into heaven is a judgement that need not be evaluated by you. Simply reading the Bible often does little to open the eyes of it's audience. If it had, history would not be repeating itself with Wars, voilent crimes, and other things too numerous to mention.

I am going to clarify my position so that nobody can misread or misinterpret any of my statements and turn it around to smack me with it...............................

I strongly disagree with the voilence, blood and gore that has taken over modern society. Instead of watching Lions kill gladiators as in the day of the Roman Empire, we watch fact and fiction depicted in increasingly suggestive, voilent and purposly shocking in order to make money and garner attention. Every day, the media ( and that includes TV and Motion Picture) raises the bar in what is considered shocking, they push the envelope with what is considered acceptable, conditioning society to be accustomed to that same blood, guts, and voilence. Each time they raise the bar, they lower society. This has nothing to do with religion, it has everything to do with money. I feel it is a shame that a historical series of events like this is not going to be suitable for kids to see. The same effect could be reached without the shocking graphic voilence. It obviously worked in many cultures and societies without all the special effects wizardry, it worked before Motion Pictures, TV and Radio. It worked in various ways over the last 2000 years without people having to see someone's guts being spilled because a movie maker couldn't get his viewpoint across without resorting to cheap theatrics. The Bible has been the referance to be followed, IMHO society shouldn't need a theatrical version with blood and guts for the people who don't read the book.

I live by the book, I will die by the book and I don't need anyone to convince me. That is like trying to convince a horse that he is indeed a horse.

Perhaps we should all take a hard look at what we consider to be acceptable. I do wish to propose one point to think of...... If the depiction of this particular historical event were truely meant to wake society up or shock them into a sense of what the bible were all about, why aren't the "profits" of this movie donated to the modern day "prophets" who are doing all the really hard work and spreading the word on a daily basis without the thought of "profit" to themselves. I'm sure Mel is going to make a real killing on this one.

And with that, I am ending any further response to religion, politics or such that is not related to our love for the f-body. I apologize if any of my viewpoints cause controversy or envoke certain emotions that cause a person stress or adverse reactions. I can assure you that the reason that I feel this way is that I was raised by the book, I don't need anyone else's intrepretation of the book........ it made it's impact on me 40 years ago.

[Black97]

Quite an interessting thread.

I do not intend to see the movie. I have no desire.

What bothers me is that there are movies out there in which 100's of people are being slaughtered to death and nobody makes a big fuss about it. They just plain don't go and see it.

Now you bring a movie with one person being tortured and eventually nailed to a cross. You add religion to it and world goes crazy.

Yes you guessed right. I'm not big on religion. Especially organized religion. How many Millions of people have been killed in the last 2000 year due to religious believes? And there are still places where people get killed for believing in something different.

Now why make a big fuss about that movie. It's a movie and it's all fake anyhow?

[Benm109]

I agree with Black97. I am a Christian but I don't want to see the movie in particular. I don't think I need to see it to understand what Jesus went through, I will just believe what I know and have read in the Bible. On a side note, don't forget about the mass media showing sex, too. I am young and I'll admit I used to like it but now I am sick of it. It's everywhere now and now everyone is desensitized to it just like violence and gore. I can't stand it. Sorry for the rant. Now back to F-Bodies!

[dochidalgo]

Well, one thing is for sure....

in the middle of the XXI century, Christ is controversy, different scenario, actors, country etc etc..and the picture show the whole humanity just like is right now... difference at all, we have not learned thru these years..corruption deceit lies, etc etc
same "quality", ....I've seen a lot of pictures with the same theme, compares to this one, it reflects more the reality....it moves me in the deeper of my soul. I'm a doctor, the death is my companion, my enemy, i saw blood everyday, but just image the suffer the blood of THAT MAN because he represents by himself, geez, i was shocked.....but, this instrument of HIM, Gibson, let out the controversy..again, even in this board.
Thruth is, we need to see the evil in us in order to appreciate the good in us. Definitively this picture is NOT a entertaiment picture, (like"Jeeper Creeper-like crap pictures because they mean nothing than stupidity), this picture is an image of us, the human being....
Doc

[Cade93TA]

Here is some info for anyone interested

If any one doesnt want to see the movie because of the blood and gore. Here is a link to one of Mel's influences(besides the bible of course).

Its a long read but very entertaining and moving. First "book"(?) that made me while I was reading. This will give the same effect and let you use your imagination.

Trust me very Long I have only read a few parts. Very detailed.
The Dolorous Passion of Christ

[dochidalgo]

Cade93TA...

Thank you very much for the link, I appreciate you share this with me (us).
Doc

[N20LT4Bird]

Originally posted by Black97
Now you bring a movie with one person being tortured and eventually nailed to a cross. You add religion to it and world goes crazy.

Now why make a big fuss about that movie. It's a movie and it's all fake anyhow?

One of the interesting things I have noticed is that 2000 years ago, Christ made quite a stir. People came from all over to see Him, hear Him, touch Him. Some believed He was the Messiah, others denied Him and stirred up controversy. Christ has always stirred up controversy. It only stands to reason that if you make a movie about the most important event in history (involving Jesus) there's going to be controversy. The media will try and distort the reasons for it being shown (anti semetic). People will try and pick out innacuracies, and water the truth down.

The one reason that Gibson made the movie was to reach a lost world. Jesus said "No man comes to the Father but by Me". When you realize (as a Christian) that Gospel is of eternal importance - you do every thing you can to share the it. Mel has a heart for the lost. For many, watching a movie like this will be the first time they are confronted with what Christ has done for them. - Saved them.

[Black97]

Originally posted by N20LT4Bird
For many, watching a movie like this will be the first time they are confronted with what Christ has done for them. - Saved them.

Saved them. From what or whom? Who is them?

The ones in this world that think their religion is the only one and try to exterminate others with different believes.

The one that lives in absolute wealth in the Vatikan and tells 3rd world countries not to use birth control?

The ministers and priests that abuse little children and then call up on the followers to donate money for cash settlements so it doesn't go to trial? There are lots of rich people that think by donating lots of money their sins will be erased. The church makes it all ok.

People can believe in anything they want. I hate it when they try to force it on somebody else. Yes that's what they do when they come to my door and try to tell me about their believes.

What enrages me most that in this day and age people are still being killed because of religious believes.

In the country where I grew up you had to pay church taxes on top of your income taxes. If you never set a foot in a church nobody came and asked why not. But once you decided that you were not going to pay the taxes anymore (leave the church) they would come by right away to persuade you differently. One argument they had was that you could not have a funeral in a church nor a burial on a church property cemetary if you didn't pay church taxes. Is that what religion is all about?

Too me it sounds like a club. You have to pay membership fees and on top of it you're told what you can do and what not.

Sorry got carried away and that on a Sunday afternoon.

[Jay 02 TA ws6]

Originally posted by Black97
Saved them. From what or whom? Who is them?

In the Christian faith, saying someone is "saved" means they believe in Christ as their savior, and their soul will be saved from an eternity in Hell. You don't have to share his beliefs, but if you want to have a valid stance in an argument, you need to at least understand the other person's point of view.

The ones in this world that think their religion is the only one and try to exterminate others with different believes.

He didn't do any such thing.

The one that lives in absolute wealth in the Vatikan and tells 3rd world countries not to use birth control?

The ministers and priests that abuse little children and then call up on the followers to donate money for cash settlements so it doesn't go to trial? There are lots of rich people that think by donating lots of money their sins will be erased. The church makes it all ok.

There are certainly some problems - but they are human ones. No human being is perfect, and since a church is a human construction to glorify God - we can't even get that right. You won't find an institution on this planet that is error or sin free. As far as holding negative views of the Catholic Church as a whole because of the perverse acts of a few bad men, that is just crazy ignorant. The number of solid, God-faring men in the Catholic Church is huge, and it is not fair to give them a black eye because of a few perverts.

People can believe in anything they want. I hate it when they try to force it on somebody else. Yes that's what they do when they come to my door and try to tell me about their believes.

I often agree with you here. I think often times that leading by example, showing your faith to other people -- rather than giving them a sales pitch on it -- brings a lot more people toward God. If you come off as a salesman, I don't think that can do anything but move people farther away from God. But again, here you must understand that as Christians, we are commanded by our beliefs to spread the word and love of God -- if we are silent and don't turn any souls to God, then we aren't following our religion the way we should be.

...........

Too me it sounds like a club. You have to pay membership fees and on top of it you're told what you can do and what not.

Sorry got carried away and that on a Sunday afternoon. [/B]

I am sorry it appears that way to you. I do believe in the goodness of churches, and if I didn't I wouldn't attend that church. Churches accomplish all sorts of positive things for their communities, I do hope that you can find one that is right for you some day.

[Cade93TA]

Great points Black 97...

These are the Dark things going on in the church today because of Man's Greed and Lust.

But the interesting thing is that these are the exact points that Jesus was against while he was on this earth. That is why he was such a revolutionary and caused such an upheaval in church.(Mark 11:15-18) His out right preaching against this stuff (greed in the church and mens lustfulness) were the points brought against Jesus by the church leaders of the day (they were called Pharisees back then)

Im like you, all this sin in the church is making me sick. They are straying away from Christ's true teaching. Believe in him and love your fellow man as yourself.
I know you brought up some bad points about the church but dont forget the many wonderful points too.
For example:

The one that lives in absolute wealth in the Vatikan and tells 3rd world countries not to use birth control

Dont forget the millions of missionaries who give up there wealth and are living in poverty just to take care of and minister to the children in the 3rd world countries.

Love and Peace
Cade

[Black97]

Jay you're correct. Jesus didn't harm anybody.

I was talking about the fanatic leaders of the church that sent troups to foreign countries to "christianize".

Cade, the missionaires are doing a noble thing and it takes a lot of courage to do what they are doing. But also there are people that use their believes to force it onto others. They are being told that you cannot pray to the sun, the moon or trees and animals anymore, see them as gods. You have to believe in our, the only god.

And while I'm in ranting mode. Another sore object to this country and the church, gay couples.

I remember a couple of years ago. Disney agreed to pay benefits to gay couples. One of the biggest churches in the US called their "members" to boycott Disney because of it. I thought the church is there for everybody.

I guess so but only as long as it fits in their believes. Where does the church take the right to judge what's right and wrong.

I was told in Sunday school that god loved everybody no matter what. I don't get the same feeling about the church, or am I wrong here?