NFB Why people soup up an econobox

[Mr Nice Guy]

I have always had the thinking that if you want a performance car it's better to buy a performance car than try and make an econobox into one. Well while talking to my younger brother (he's 21)he gave me a little insight as to why someone might do this. When he told me that he was looking to get a mid 90s Civic or Teg and do an engine swap to make it faster. I brought up the argument of why go through that much trouble? Why not just buy something that is fast to begin with? His reply was for insurance reasons. He has a pretty crappy driving record and insurance on anything fast like an F-bod would be way too expensive. I waited untill I was 24 to get my first F-bod and it was still expensive even with a perfect driving record. Now insurance on a 4 cyl Honda is definately much cheaper. So I guess this would make some sense. He's not one to make it ricey. He actually wants it too be quick and not a body kitted, winged, fart piped, sticker mobile. I think this could be the case for many younger people that can't afford the insurance of an F-bod, Vette, Mustang GT, 300ZX TT, 300GT VR4 etc, Eclipse GSX etc. Well just thought I'd shed some light on why some people try to make hondas and such fast. Now I do realize that most people are just following trends so those people still suck ......Just thought I'd share.......Later

[Mark B]

My thoughts...

I guess that would be a reason to soup up a Honda. However, I cant afford the insurance on a F-Body either, but I dont try to make my 93 Cavalier fast. I accept it for what it is. Its a slow, ugly, commuter car. But I think what drives most of us nuts isnt the fact that they are souping up hondas...... Its the fact that they seem to have no idea what fast is. If they like the way hondas look with body kits and stuff, then that is what they should drive. However, its when they start saying that they can take our F-Bodys any day of the week...becasue they have V-Tec or something rediculous like that... Thats when we all start getting annoyed. Or if they insist on reving there loud, high pitched engines at us.

[TraceZ]

Some things are just not meant to be. An econobox is just that, an economy car. It was not designed to be fast. It was designed to go to the grocery store and back, geting good gas mileage.

Here is what is happenning......

Kids typically get mom and dad's old cars as there first rides... We got old V8 cars back in our days. I had a 1975 Ford Torino. This is why we love them, because we grew up in them. We hopped them up and had tons of fun.

Todays kids get mom and dad's old L4 and V6 economy cars. They do the same as we did, only there "raw material" they start with is not as strong so... They fix them up with body kits and silly fart pipes instead.

So, you see... things really havent changed that much. It is just that the Dodge Dart has been replaced by the Honda Civic as the commonly available raw material.

Even knowing this, I still laugh every time some kid does the ricer fly-by past my Z. HA HA. At least the automotive hobby lives.

[wako29]

it depends on what you consider an econobox:

Now, for a Civic, there are no practical reasons to soup one up, besides the fact that a) parts are easy to come by and everything you could think of is made for a civic, and b) everything is cheap about the car-insurance, parts, etc.

but, something like a Subaru is a nice car that has the potential to go fast, and can do so very easily. Parts are of higher quality than civic stuff, usually, but you end up paying for it. Also, guys soup up Subarus for different reasons besides the 1320. A lot of Subaru owners participate in autox, rallys, track days, etc.



In a nutshell:
I would say that 85% of the econobox soup-up-people are ricers. No need to bother with them, as they are REALLY dumb when it comes to cars or going fast.
However, that last 15% of people actually know what it takes, and means, to go fast. Their cars are pretty fast, and would probably rip a new one to a lot of V8s. They also compete in events that F-Bodys aren't known to be strong in (and usually aren't), such as autox, rally, road tracks, etc.

[Jay 02 TA ws6]

I don't know if that insurance stuff is really true...

...if a kid throws thousands of dollars in to his civic, by say, putting in a B18 (Integra GSR motor) and turboing it... he is going to have one fast as hell Civic.

There is a stripped out Civic hatchback in my town with that engine combo running 11s.

However... if you put that much money in to your car modifying it, and don't tell the insurance company... what do you think is going to happen if you get into an accident and a claims agent sees that? Two words: "Policy Void"

If your car gets stolen, good luck getting all the money from the parts that you had on it...

if you are modifying your car like that and not telling the insurance company about it... you are asking for trouble.

[wako29]

and if you do tell people about it, then they might cancel your policy anyway


but, I understand where you are coming from. I think thats a risk they all are willing to take. Hell, if they got into a mild fender-bender, then they would try to get the cash from the insurance agency, only to buy a new set of Z3 fenders or something, instead of the stock ones

[Jay 02 TA ws6]

Well, you are forgetting the most important reason to have car insurance...

....liability



If you are at fault in an accident that kills someone... you better pray that you don't get your policy voided because you have serious power modifications that you never told anyone about.

[Mr Nice Guy]

Yeah that's true if you go all out with the car and tell the Insurance it's stock you could get screwed big time. Just a mild engine swap or something and you are prolly Ok. If you turbo it and do too much they could void your warranty or at very least only pay for a stock car. This dosen't really aply to my brother since he just wants to swap a prelude motor to get a decently quick car not something running 11s. My other brother did a SR swap on a 91 240 SX and spent about 12 grand on it(very fast and nice) so he had it insured for what he spent not just as a stock 91 240.

[N20LT4Bird]

For me, theres more to it than insurance. I have the WS6, so thats the insurance killer for me at 24.

My OMNI however, is built for just pure FUN. THere is nothing funnier than to pull up to a 5.0 Rustang or one of these ricer mobiles or maybe even an unmodded Z28 or T/A and blow by in the ugliest looking econobox imaginaeable! It really is fun. My Omni lights the tires better than my bird! You can be doing 40mph, get into the boost and just rip them loose.

Heres the real beauty - you CANT BEAT ME in the omni! If I walk you, you just got beat by a dodge omni, HA HA! but if you walk me, so what? WOW! you beat a Dodge Omni. Right? I think its funny.

.....it runs the 1/4 in the low 14's @103mph! Very traction limited - the trap speed is really mid 13's! I know its not a rocket ship, but its fast enough to at least keep up with 75% of street cars from a roll.

[Jay 02 TA ws6]

That's hilarious

[coloradoformula]

Well guys, I agree and disagree with your thoughts. I agree with the thought that kids today have less powerful "raw material" that would be cheaper to soop up rather than buy a faster car. I disagree with the thought that insurance on a faster car is more expensive. My first car was a Beretta insurance was something like $190.00/month. Before I bought the Beretta I considered getting a first generation GST eclipse, this car too was around $190.00/month but was considerably faster than the Beretta. When I bought my formula I was suprised to learn that insurance was only going to cost me $165.00. I asked my agent why it was cheaper when the car had twice the power and twice the value, he said "the car is extremely safe." I later found out that the insurance would be cheaper on my car than any other car that my parents owned (94 Silverado, 97 Lumina, 97 Grand AM GT, 2002 Grand Am GT - no imports here!!!)

[briantech98]

I don't really think its about the insurance at all. Especially not with the kind of money these kids are dropping into body kits, full paint jobs, neons, 2000 watt sound systems, dvd players, turbos, NOS, rims, fake BOV's, sparco seats, etc etc

As one of my foreign loving friends put it (he drives an NA 300zx), its all about the technology. We're in the electronic / information age, and its all about flashy computers, electronics, and blinky lights. Thats simply the "cool" thing to do.

Some of them probably realize that yes, if they simply increased the displacement of their engines they could make more power. But of them want to. I mean the technology in our LT1 / LS1 engines is medieval compared to some of the stuff coming out in cars now. Pushrods! lol How quaint.

The problem arises when the other 85% of the kids are just following the scene and don't really know anything... they're fast compared to all the other ricers they hang out with, so they just assume they're fast compared to everyone else period. And when we pull up in a fbody, which aren't even made anymore, they think they're racing a dinosaur. They might recognize a Z06 next to them and decide its not worth it, but hell the LT1's at one point only had 275 hp at the crank. A stock "econobox" wrx sti has 300hp....

anyway my point was, pulling together a lot of the comments in this thread, it would indeed appear that the "older guys" still loving the V8 "old" technology love it cause thats what they grew up with, thats the scene they were in and thats all they care for.

The kids nowadays dont have that. Its all about technology, and making something go fast with engineering and design as opposed to just brute massive strength.

And especially now that the V8 muscle car is spiraling out of existence, more and more car enthusiasts are gonna go towards the technology side of the fence. What have we to offer to kids now? Only contender anymore, that is accessable to them even remotely, is the '03 cobra. yeah the corvette is gonna be wicked fast but it will also be $55,000+. The GTO is a V8 but its being marketed at the baby boomers almost primarily.

Its not insurance prices. Its just evolution of the car scene.

[Jay 02 TA ws6]

Originally posted by briantech98


Some of them probably realize that yes, if they simply increased the displacement of their engines they could make more power. But of them want to. I mean the technology in our LT1 / LS1 engines is medieval compared to some of the stuff coming out in cars now. Pushrods! lol How quaint.

If they try to use this argument, you can easily shut them up by educating them.

OHC technology is older than pushrod. That's right, pushrod is actually newer technology.

Now VVT and DOHC is another story... but if they want to take shots at pushrods, know your stuff and shoot right back at them

[wako29]

also, I've heard that an LS1's motor and tranny weigh less than a S2K's motor and tranny, but only by like 4 pounds or something.

can anyone verify this?

[Jay 02 TA ws6]

Originally posted by wako29
also, I've heard that an LS1's motor and tranny weigh less than a S2K's motor and tranny, but only by like 4 pounds or something.

can anyone verify this?

No way.

The LS1 weighs about 60-70 lbs more than the F20C.

Add transmission to that, and you gotta believe that a transmission built to handle 350 ft-lbs is going to be heavier duty than the F20C's.