NFB: Does God have a sense of irony?

[TODD 2000 V6 CAMARO]

And what would Jesus say if he was alive today and saw the mountain of gold and riches that the pope lives on. It would all be given away to help the needy.

If you believe in God, you have to believe in the devil, and only the devil could greedily sit on that much money and power while watching people die globally of exposure, disease and starvation. There is so much they could do to make the world a better place, but choose not to.

Ya know, Tracey, I actually agree with you there. I am one person who believes that the Pope is basically an Idol. He is pretty much worshipped by catholics, along with the virgin mary. Both were/are just people. I have no idea where the belief that one should confess his sins to a man instead of Jesus ever came from. "No one can come to the father but through the son." The bible plainly says we should confess our sins to Jesus for forgiveness. I will probably take alot of flack from any catholics on this board, but I see way too many flaws in that faith, one being the amount of wealth you mentioned that the church has. Look at most (normal size) Christian churches and they are getting by month to month, on tithes that they have to pay a large staff with, pay bills, and send a large amount to charities and use more on missions, giving youth things to do that keep them out of trouble, etc. I believe catholics are good, faithful people, but the catholic church has way too many doctrines that go against what the bible teaches for me to believe much of what they teach.

[DeWynter]

Ya know, Tracey, I actually agree with you there. I am one person who believes that the Pope is basically an Idol. He is pretty much worshipped by catholics, along with the virgin mary. Both were/are just people. I have no idea where the belief that one should confess his sins to a man instead of Jesus ever came from. "No one can come to the father but through the son." The bible plainly says we should confess our sins to Jesus for forgiveness. I will probably take alot of flack from any catholics on this board, but I see way too many flaws in that faith, one being the amount of wealth you mentioned that the church has. Look at most (normal size) Christian churches and they are getting by month to month, on tithes that they have to pay a large staff with, pay bills, and send a large amount to charities and use more on missions, giving youth things to do that keep them out of trouble, etc. I believe catholics are good, faithful people, but the catholic church has way too many doctrines that go against what the bible teaches for me to believe much of what they teach.

My thoughts mirror this. I know lots of catholics and they are all good people, but I am no fan of the catholic religon. I have read all of the bible and most of it more than a few times, and I just dont see where some of the catholic ideologies come from. I am no expert on Religions, and I say what ever floats your boat, its just not for me. I am Christian all the way.

[Camaro4-2]

Kevin,
Sorry didn't mean to anger you with that if i did. The church isn't trying to convert the native to christianity. The Church is trying to convert the WORLD to christianity becuase we want ppl to feel the same love we do from our creator. Its like if your friend isn't sure if he wants to buy a T/A or a supercharged grand am....your gonna try to get him to see the wonders of the T/A and how amazing it is to have it in your life.

Yes other countries are very poor i've seen it. But a question for all of us....whens the last time we sacrificed a $20 meal at Outback Steakhouse, or didn't spend money buying a useless modification for our highpowered chariots of steel, or didn't buy new clothes when we have a closet full, and use that a little at a time to feed the needy and cloth the poor in these countries? We're so quick to attack the rich churches and God for letting these people suffer when we are the most selfish rich nation in the world and daily spend money that we dont need to spend on ourselves. Blame the church, but the church is the one activly trying to make a differnece in the world. I think this is a time that were being called upon to join hands and attack some of these problems instead of gripping about it and blaming God.

food for thought....

[Kevin - Blown 95 TA]

Not angry at all, just don't like hypocracy. I happen to think everybody should live by the 10 commandments, but I am more of a diest and really believe that things were let alone after creation. Churches do a LOT of good in my opinion, but a damn lot of people have been killed in the quest to convert or conquer those with other beliefs. Actually, those missionaries are pretty brave, seeing as how they can get killed in some pretty brutal ways. Heck, the Iroquois Indians captured a Jesuit named father Jean de Brebeuf, who was a missionary to the Hurons back in 1649, and cut off his hands. They pierced his skin with an iron poker in several places and hung some red hot tomohawks around his neck so he got burned every time he turned his head. Then they made him a belt covered with pitch and resin and tied it around his body and set it on fire. He started preaching to them, but that pissed them off more, so they stuck some brands from the fire into his mouth. He was still trying to talk, so they cut off his lips, and that shut him up. Keep in mind they weren't trying to kill him just yet. They repeatedly poured boiling hot buckets of water over him and started cutting off pieces of his flesh in non-lethal areas of his body. They roasted the pieces and ate them with him watching. They finished him off by amputating his feet and scalping him.

So...Do you think God was looking after Father Jean? And do you think He would forgive the Indians for what they did? Do you think that Father Jean should have been trying to convert the Indians to Christianity?

But in answer to Dave's original question, sure, God has a great sense of irony.

[Nightrage]

I have a serious question here. If god created the Earth in seven days, how come scientists have evidence that it took eons for the "Big Bang" to occur? EONS!!! Not seven days. On top of that, he created humans on whatever day. When did he create the dinosaurs that we have physical evidence of? They were around way before us. Also, where did Ra and Odin and Zeus go? Has anyone read the Satanic Bible? It's not about sacraficing small animals and children and hoarding as much money as you possibly can as apparently some of you think.

[Camaro4-2]

yea Kev, I understand your points. Unfortunatly theres lots of hypocracy in the christian faith, as there is with anything regarding morals. But like they say, I'm not gonna stop grocery shopping because i got a few bad apples. Everyones own personal choice. There are a lot of questions like that tale you just told too that remain unanswered and make us wonder. I guess well know when its alllll over though.

I have a serious question here. If god created the Earth in seven days, how come scientists have evidence that it took eons for the "Big Bang" to occur? EONS!!! Not seven days. On top of that, he created humans on whatever day. When did he create the dinosaurs that we have physical evidence of? They were around way before us. Also, where did Ra and Odin and Zeus go? Has anyone read the Satanic Bible? It's not about sacraficing small animals and children and hoarding as much money as you possibly can as apparently some of you think.

Actually if you do some study on this...there is a new field of thought that has actual scientific evidence of creationism. They are finding more and more evidence that the world may have been created...its interesting to read, some of it might be true, some false, interesting the less. But if you look at science when they cant explain somethign they come up with theories, and publish them. Then after its published the other colleges can critisize and refine it, and if theres no way to explain something they pick the one that makes the most sense and keep tweaking it until it fits a mold. Sounds like faith to me...(learned about it in college last month)
I had a really good site that talked about it....but heres one i just pulled up on google http://www.matthewmcgee.org/creation.html

[Mike71]

^so what about all the dinosaur fossils they are finding that date back millions of years?

[94 formula]

How do you know they date back that far. Seriously I'm not trying to pick on you cause I sure don't know. Are you believing just what your told? What if I told you a v6 mustand would beat a LS1 TA and you had no idea about cars and thought I did you'd believe that wouldn't you? This is how I look at it there are some things that just can't be fathomed by us thats where faith comes in. If God didn't create the world who did. Was it the big bang that did. But wouldn't it take something to be out there to create the big bang. Don't scientists say the big bang happened from matter. Well who created that matter? No one can really understand infinity. God has always been around and always will be. I can't understand infinity. It baffles my mind to think that there was no start to something. How is that possible? I can't honestly tell you. But I can tell you I have a much easier time believing that God is our creator than someone telling me a bunch of matter exploded and made the earth and made humans. Look at how complex we are do you really think you came out of an explosion? The only thing I've ever seen an explosion do is destroy not create. And whatever caused this explosion how was it made?

[Craig 94 TA GT]

...but I see way too many flaws in that faith, one being the amount of wealth you mentioned that the church has. Look at most (normal size) Christian churches and they are getting by month to month, on tithes that they have to pay a large staff with, pay bills, and send a large amount to charities and use more on missions, giving youth things to do that keep them out of trouble, etc.

Maybe you're talking about the wealthy Vatican place, but if to keep perspective, any "normal" Catholic churches are not doing so well. My church has a huge staff, not to mention are located in one of the most expensive places to live in America, and make less than what they need. They generally need $15k/week to survive, and on 5,000 members, get $13k/week. They are in huge debt and have absolutely zero wealth. My high school was a normal sized Christian (First Assembly) church, and the head pastor drove a Lexus...my current head pastor drives a Sunfire. My high school church even has AC, but my catholic church has only ceiling fans. I'm not saying this is true for all cases, but this is definitely true around my area.

[Nightrage]

They just built a church down the road from me. It cost them (this is no joke) $8,000,000. 8 million dollars for a church, are you kidding me? It's actually not a new church. There's a smaller church about 200 feet away from the newly built one but the old one didn't have air conditioning. Apparently it's in god's will for his worshippers to sit in air conditioning. Mind you, this church wasn't rebuilt due to lack of space/ room. My grandma never misses 5 'o' clock mass and she used to go to the church down the street from me. She heard about the $8 million it cost to build it and was so offended that she found another church.
94 formula- I think you answered your own question. It's human nature to NEED an answer for the unknown. Prometheus gifted man with fire........no. Azazel gifted (or plagued depending on how you look at it) man with weapons of war.........yet again, no. If you hear a noise in the middle of the night, it's the "house settling". How long does it take for a house to "settle"? Mine is still settling afterover30 years! They're ideas created to put our minds at ease. it would drive us mad if we didn't have some form of an answer to these questions. Say someone is driving and narrowly escapes an accident. They view it as an act of god. This comforts them. It wouldn't sit right with me to believe that there's this invisible entity that guided me away from danger. I'd much rather just accept that my reflexes saved me. If you sin, this god (that you can coincidentally only meet when you die) will become greatly angered and can possibly prevent you from joining him in his utopia. To me, this sounds a lot like threatening a child with a monster of some sort if they don't cooperate. Mind control. I don't see how the positives about religion outweigh the negatives in any way. It comforts people, sure, this is great. There are countless religious organizations dedicated to helping the needy which is also amazing. At the same time, i have $8 million dollars worth of proof two blocks away from me that there's plenty of greed involved in religion. People don't want to accept this so they create something like "Satan" (i can't believe any of this either) to blame all the negatives on. The inquisitions, the crusades, the holocaust (if you wish to include it), Jews making Catholics fight lions in colluseums, all in the name of religion. People constantly blame the devil for doing all of these horrible things. When was the last time that a real worshipper of Satan lead a war aganst another religion and killed thousands of people for worshipping another god. This doesn't mean all of the stupid people that claim they worship the devil only to use it as an excuse like kids who steal cars and blame it on playing Grand Theft Auto. Rather than just accepting that these pious men have done such horrible things, they blame it on an imaginary creature. What about all of the priests that molested kids? What, were they posessed? Were all of the people who laimed to have been molested lying? I will never "just have faith" nor will i ever live my life the way that a religion based off of legends and stories tells me to. I DO NOT MEAN TO OFFEND ANYONE HERE AND I APOLOGIZE IF I DID. You all have treated me very well but we all also respect each others opinions and i respect that if you strongly believe in god then you have every right to. You can worship a shoe if you really desire to and no one has the right to tell you otherwise. I just can't possibly accept a religion based on faith and trust after i've been given so many reasons not to it. If i ever did choose a religion, it would be something based on the Earth and nature. I feel that after we die, we simply decay back into the Earth from which we came. The land can provide us with anything we need. It would be great to believe that after we live our current lives, we lived in eternal happiness but i can't bring myself to belive this. Again, i apologize if i offended anyone as i know my grandma used to get a little upset when i questioned her about her religion. People have the right to worship whomever or whatever they please however so understand that this is just the way that i feel.

[Nightrage]

Look at how complex we are do you really think you came out of an explosion? The only thing I've ever seen an explosion do is destroy not create. And whatever caused this explosion how was it made?

Think of a pinapple grenade. One second, it's a mass of metal. 5 seconds later, there is shrapnel all over the place. Same general concept. The big bang put simply is that the sun was once a solid mass but due to eons of spinning and continually building up speed, it caused an explosion which launched most of the solid parts of the sun hurtling through space. It spun so fast that it turned into a burning mass of gas. This would also explain why the Earth is tilted and wobbles like a top every 15,000 or so years. It was launched spinning throughout space. Also, you could apply the same question to god. How did it get there? What created it? What if one of those conspiracies were correct and we're an alien experiment? Who knows. I certainly don't.

[94 formula]

I'm not trying to argue with you and if you don't believe in God its your choice its your life I hold nothing against that. But think about this not as a religious point of view but as a reasoning. If there was a big bang it had to of come from something right? Thats what I questioned earlier in this thread. Its like the chicken or the egg which came first? No one knows but to me even if I'm not looking at it religiously just reasoning it out something had to of happened to put us here but if there was a big bang what created the bang?

[Camaro4-2]

Religion has its flaws becuase it was created by man. The spiritual relationship you have with God is what I'm defending. I have seen things that could be coincidence, but I will tell you this, when i oppend my eyes to the Lord and went from just like you a very strong NON-RELIGIOUS person, who said all the same things you did and worse, when I finally gave it a rest and He forced his way in my life, since then I've seen way too many things that prove to me that God is real, and that this isn't just some stories we all made up one day 2000 years ago to give ourselfs some answers. I'm not talking about little coincidences, i'm talking about very real personal things that have affirmed He exsists. Everyday especially when I have doubts God affirms himself somehow thoughout my day, and all "religion" aside, I really strongly know that when you develop a relationship with God your life only benefits, if you truely are seeking Him.

Of course you cant see things like this and of course you wont understand God if you dont belive I mean thats a given. Its like trying to understand your neighbor across the street without develping a relationship with him. He cant help you, he cant make you accept who he is, he cant even get you to agree with the same moral system he does, but the closer you'd get to him the more you'd understand him and the more he would be with you.

Its a decision everyone makes on their own, I for one was the last person everyone expected to be Chrisitan, and I turned out 180 degrees the other way. I pray and hope that you and others who have never seen the loving hand of God that they do. You dont have to just "have faith" and you dont have to be on a "blind wimb" if you accept him he will show you you did the right thing. Until then we all have a great common bond and thats the beautiful piece of machinery that we all drive ....mmm....f-cars....

[Ryan98T/A]

I happen to think everybody should live by the 10 commandments, .

Funny you should bring up the 10 Commandments. I was just reading some things and talking to a few knowledgable people and this is what I found out. The commandments were set forth in the beginning as a way to get into Heaven. But God found later that they were too difficult to live by and he gave us his son to die. Now the way to the gates of Heaven are having a relationship with Jesus and accepting him as our lord and savior. Asking forgiveness is the way to Heaven.

But as far as this particular story, as brutal as it may be, it was Gods will. The reason may not be appearant to us here, but it is to the woman in Heaven or where ever she may be.

[Ryan98T/A]

Religion has its flaws becuase it was created by man. The spiritual relationship you have with God is what I'm defending. I have seen things that could be coincidence, but I will tell you this, when i oppend my eyes to the Lord and went from just like you a very strong NON-RELIGIOUS person, who said all the same things you did and worse, when I finally gave it a rest and He forced his way in my life, since then I've seen way too many things that prove to me that God is real, and that this isn't just some stories we all made up one day 2000 years ago to give ourselfs some answers. I'm not talking about little coincidences, i'm talking about very real personal things that have affirmed He exsists. Everyday especially when I have doubts God affirms himself somehow thoughout my day, and all "religion" aside, I really strongly know that when you develop a relationship with God your life only benefits, if you truely are seeking Him.

Of course you cant see things like this and of course you wont understand God if you dont belive I mean thats a given. Its like trying to understand your neighbor across the street without develping a relationship with him. He cant help you, he cant make you accept who he is, he cant even get you to agree with the same moral system he does, but the closer you'd get to him the more you'd understand him and the more he would be with you.

Its a decision everyone makes on their own, I for one was the last person everyone expected to be Chrisitan, and I turned out 180 degrees the other way. I pray and hope that you and others who have never seen the loving hand of God that they do. You dont have to just "have faith" and you dont have to be on a "blind wimb" if you accept him he will show you you did the right thing. Until then we all have a great common bond and thats the beautiful piece of machinery that we all drive ....mmm....f-cars....

Well put. Dont think I could have said it better myself.