Loose Change-9-11-01-DISCUSS

[FroSSty]

+1
I can only hope that one day, this will be resolved for all of us...

[Roger in Kensington]

I am usually very impressed by your level of knowledge.(although you do seem to resort to personal attacks) I was reading through the thread for your post and was utterly disappointed by what I read. I don't think anyone was arguing with you at all. Is questioning a major situation that seems to be full of holes, as told by our government, a time waster? Finally, can a human being actually have gnat-brains? If so, how?

Terribly sorry to disappoint, though I often feel as if I am talking with people who plumb the depths of ignorance. Many on this Board would feel that way about me if I were to argue the merits of, say, one type of supercharger over another. The difference is (evidenced in many of my previous posts) I usually acknowledge my ignorance.

Soon after the Pearl Harbor attack, there were many charges that President Roosevelt (Franklin, not Theodore, for those unfamiliar with the difference) knew of the attack in advance and allowed it to happen so as to involve us in the war in Europe.

All manner of so-called "evidence" was advanced in support of the charge. A recent book, Day of Deception, by Robert Stinnett (I've read this book), repeated and amplified these charges. Very well researched. Very well written.

Yet, not very convincing.

Why? Because it fails the test of credulity. It would have involved a conspiracy of hundreds, if not thousands, of people from the lowest to the highest levels of civilian and military leadership. Does it seem reasonable to anyone that such a conspiracy could be contemplated -- much less conducted -- and no one spill the beans?

A wise man once wrote, "Never ascribe to malice that which can be explained by incompetence."

The Japanese did their homework, took a chance that the attack would succeed, and exploited vulnerabilities in our defenses.

Let me be blunt: It is obscene to think that any president would knowingly conspire to do such a thing. And I am ashamed that there are those Americans -- including some on this Board -- who are so devoid of critical thinking that they subscribe to the most outrageous and unfounded accusations regarding the attacks of September 11, 2001. Pity that they cannot be ashamed of themselves.
_________________________

Yesterday, I received the following from a woman in my office who had received it from a friend of hers who was working at the Pentagon on 9/11.

I received this from a friend of mine who works at the pentagon and was there on 9/11/01. During this time of remembrance, I thought his experiences and heartfelt thoughts would be good to share with all of you .


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Six years later and the power of remembrance and to honor those who died is still raw and fresh. Every year since 2001, there has been a ceremony in the Pentagon Auditorium at 11:00 a.m to honor those who died here, in New York, and in Pennsylvania. I never miss it. Today's ceremony was magnificent and by far the most moving and powerful of all the remembrances. It was good that the Secretary was there. As Robert Louis Stevenson once wrote "Sooner of Later We All Sit Down to a Banquet of Consequences." Remembering those who died on that day is an obligation and gives us strength and purpose. I remember Mike Selves who was just a few months from retiring to Hilton Head. I often played golf with Mike and his wife Gail. We now have an engraved bench on the 13th hole with Mike's name on it-- which was his favorite. This past weekend, I hit an extra ball on that hole, as I always do when we reach September 11th.

I still remember how we all were shocked and hurded out of the vault and out of the building as the fire and the smoke began to spread. I remember arriving first the next morning with a sore throat to a hallway and a vault that strongly smelled of smoke -- but I was never prouder to be here. I still regret six years later that I did not run to fire, it is something I will always regret and second guess myself on.

Today's ceremony included a talk by LTC. (ret.) Brian Birdwell (USA) who received burns over 60 percent of his body, nearly half were third degree. He had to undergo 30 plus surgeries, intensive skin grafts and unbearbly painful burn treatments. He thought he would surely die. When he asked the Doctor at Georgetown to take his wedding ring off to give it to his wife before he died -- his whole finger came off with it. He has now remarkably recovered and has his own ministry in Texas called --"Face the Fire." His talk was very moving and inspirational and a fitting tribute to those who died. We also had a musical group from England that goes by the name of the Newsboys. They were awesome.

I am also reminded of the timeless/everlasting message of the Wizard of Oz. Dorothy never had to leave Kansas to find the end of the rainbow -- it was in front of her the whole time. Her family and friends -- as they always do -- iwere what mattered in the end. As we remember those who died on September 11, I do not view their deaths as a waste. Their sacrifice reminds of why it is so special to be an American and why we remain the greatest country on this earth. I leave you with a quote that no one really knows who the author is. It is believed to be about the Standard Bearers in the Civil War who proportionally suffered the highest casualty rate of any entity in the conflict. It goes as follows: "We Cannot Chose Our Battlefields, God Does That For Us, But We Can Plant A Standard, Where A Standard Never Flew." Everyone who died that day -- each in their own way -- planted a standard. Please remember those who died six years ago today, and why we must continue to combat those who continue to wish us harm.
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After seeing, hearing and reading the "evidence," I conclude that advocates of a Bush-led 9/11 conspiracy -- a conspiracy so massive that literally thousands would have had to be involved (all the way down to the lab workers identifying bodies through DNA analysis) -- have impaired reasoning abilities. Occam's razor -- and the Ninth Commandment -- should provide them with useful guides. But it won't.

As I said, such "theories" are obscene. Perhaps, in time, many here will come to realize this.

[TODD 2000 V6 CAMARO]

I cannot have said it better myself. Nuff said on this topic.

[CLWILSON]

I guess we can all agree to disagree because we have the right to do so...that's what makes this country great.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,296695,00.html

I will just add that right is one of the things that these people that did this to us (the islamic extremists) hate the most. The fact that we have the right to say and believe anything we want.

[ConElite]

I will just add that right is one of the things that these people that did this to us (the islamic extremists) hate the most. The fact that we have the right to say and believe anything we want.

And those Islamic Extremists are Led by what? Religion and belief in they're religion. All your beliefs/morals depend on what your religious background is/what you were brainwashed/raised to believe. So regardless of what you seriously want/will/do believe, people with different backgrounds will never really Agree!!! Thats simply how it is.

[Joe 1320]

I wouldn't say that exactly. There are many people with different religious beliefs that even if they don't agree, they don't become the enemies. Civilized people can live in peace with each other.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. The human species is destined for extiction.

[BrdWAtti2d]

You can accomplish almost anything with careful planning, enough resources and time. They have all three. Men built pyramids with primitive tools after all, that is of course unless you ascribe to the bunk that they were guided by aliens. I don't doubt that a few that believe this conspiracy theory believe that as well.

[Joe 1320]

the main problem with the any conspiracy theory is that human beings just can't keep their mouth shut. If someone knew of real evidence, it would just simply kill them to keep quiet.

[BrdWAtti2d]

the main problem with the any conspiracy theory is that human beings just can't keep their mouth shut. If someone knew of real evidence, it would just simply kill them to keep quiet.

Yep that and Geraldo Riveria paying them a bazillion dollars for their story.

[Joe 1320]

Yep that and Geraldo Riveria paying them a bazillion dollars for their story.

LOL! True too. All too true.

[Roger in Kensington]

If anyone is still interested, let me tell you about my day.

I attended the "Gathering of Eagles," which was the counter-demonstration to the much larger Move On/ANSWER anti-war demonstration in Washington.

As the demonstrators passed by me, one young lady was offering pamphlets entitled, "Take the 9/11 Quiz" purporting to "prove" that the 9/11 attacks were caused by the government, i.e., Bush-Cheney.

At first I demurred, then reconsidered and accepted one of the pamphlets, reading it on my way home. Seeing some items that were obviously suspect (for instance, a section entitled "What caused steel to turn to molten metal?"), I turned to Google to check some of the pamphlet's references.

This brought me to this site which is thoroughly referenced with the original citations presented in full. As I suspected, much of the material in the pamphlet -- especially the quotes -- had either been taken out of context or misquoted.

Without going into my history of debunking things, let's just say I've been at it long enough to recognize something as being suspicious and in need of further investigation. When I started doing this, there was no such thing as an Internet and all my work had to be done with many painstaking hours at the library.

And on several occasions, I have been able to embarrass some folks publicly when they uncritically accept what someone says about what someone else says without making the effort to check the original source.

With the resources now available to each of us, there is no longer any excuse for allowing ourselves to be bamboozled. To do otherwise is simply intellectually lazy.

I don't want the originator of this thread to think that I had simply dismissed his concerns without doing some investigation of my own. If nothing else, you forced me to check references for myself, which is always a positive thing.

[Sean 94z28]

Goes both ways.

Man What I would do to sit with u guys in a room, Play that movie and have you "explain" every single thing/make up an "excuse" to what the truth really is. ha ha ha

P.S. If you look at pictures of Ground Zero, A lot of those steel H beams bent under the pressure, Not snap.

It looks like gullibility is still in abundance here. Loose change is soooooo 2006.

http://forums.randi.org/local_links....d=18&linkid=96

http://forums.randi.org/local_links....d=18&linkid=86

Reads these and re-think that "full of facts" nonsense. Then produce even one piece of real evidence from the "truth movement". Just one.

While I am highly critical of the way our government operates, this 9/11 CT garbage is nothing but foolishness.

[FroSSty]

I have spent the last 10+ days reading and rereading and searching the net and applying my own common sense to the "conspiracy theory" and am now ready to bite the bullet and EAT CROW! I am, however, somewhat new to the whole "caring about politics" plight. I also mistook a close friends' opinions to be my own before actually doing the research myself. Call it "intellectually lazy", at least in my case, it was. Now I feel psychologically refreshed and hereby vow to never make an @zz of myself on a public board so help me god. This isn't to say that I believe that the government did all they could to stop 9-11, just that it was not led by or thought up by anybody but the scum we are currently killing in the middle east. Matter of fact, I may now enlist...........

[TODD 2000 V6 CAMARO]

I won't post the link here because it has some profanity in it, but if you want to see something funny, go to You Tube and search for Penn & Teller 9/11 and click on the 9/11 conspiracy theories video. They addressed the issue in their "BS" show. Worth checking out.

[FroSSty]

That is funny...Not much useful information but, somehow, they got there point across.