Loose Change-9-11-01-DISCUSS

[Joe 1320]

OK.....



Let's not turn this into a politcal bashing debate as to what party and person is at fault? This has little to do with the original topic. It's been going pretty good so far, a few close calls so let's not ruin it. Political arguements of that nature never get resolved, it's merely a matter of heated opinion.

[ConElite]

OK.....



Let's not turn this into a politcal bashing debate as to what party and person is at fault? This has little to do with the original topic. It's been going pretty good so far, a few close calls so let's not ruin it. Political arguements of that nature never get resolved, it's merely a matter of heated opinion.

Well Stated Joe. Ha ha ha. Good Debate. It made my day at work go by a little faster. ha ha ha

[Roger in Kensington]

Oh, dear me, where to start?

Well, let's start here:

What facts are in evidence?

Two hijacked airplanes hit the WTC. How do we know this? Eyewitness accounts, cell phone records and recorded images.

A third hijacked airplane crashes in a field near Shanksville, Pennsylvania. How do we know this? Cockpit transcripts, cell phone calls, parts of the plane and a big hole in the ground.

Yet, we are now to believe (Why? Well, uh, because someone made a movie about it and, uh, y'know, like, you can't trust the government, dude, and like, that proves it, y'know) that there was no fourth plane. Nope. It must have been something else!

Well, like what?

Does it matter that this happened during the morning rush hour on the side of the Pentagon next to a busy highway and that there were numerous eyewitnesses who actually saw the plane hit the Pentagon? Does it matter that parts of the plane were scattered all over the impact area?

Does it matter that a college friend of my wife's was on the plane?

Does it matter that the wife of the Solicitor General of the United States was on that plane?

Does evidence count for anything at all?

Apparently not.

Instead, we are to accept the word of a noted authority like Rosie O'Donnell that "you can't melt steel"? Really? Can't melt steel. That's news to all the world's steel mills.

Better question: Why am I wasting my time arguing with gnat-brains?

Good question.

Good night and goodbye (<--- short for "God Be With You").

[78formula78]

Hey not to bring up old parts of this debate but last month I started a new job at the airport. And we have a jet plane called a CRJ-700 it has its main cargo door located right under the number one(driver) side jet engine, When loading cargo you have to be EXTREMLY careful, we had a peice of luggage coming up on our belt loader that hit the outerskin and dented it. Once dented the WHOLE peice had to be removed and replaced with a new peice. This dent was less then the size of a 50 cent peice, but because of Aluminum's propertys onced damaged you have no real choice but to replace it because Aluminum has a limited fitigue life. Take a peice of steel that takes 5000 lbs to break and put it under 2500lbs of force and watch what happens. Do that same thing to a peice of Aluminum with the same 5000lb before it breaks and put it under 2500lbs, eventually the Aluminum gives while the steel is still in one peice.

Just trying to throw what 02.$ have collected to help with the debate.

[MunsonGTA]

OK.....



Let's not turn this into a politcal bashing debate as to what party and person is at fault? This has little to do with the original topic. It's been going pretty good so far, a few close calls so let's not ruin it. Political arguements of that nature never get resolved, it's merely a matter of heated opinion.

i really was trying to keep it all about 9/11 and not political, he switched to the whole thing about republicans this and that. it's really not worth debating anymore, you and i and the majority of the country knew what happened, some people just choose not to except it. we base what we believe on facts, they base what they believe on theory.. it's a waste of time.

[Joe 1320]

If you think about it, it's a great forum when we can have thais kind of activity in a 24 hour period and nobody gets nasty.


The debates are the most fun when friends don't become the enemy just becasue a difference of opinion.

[Steel2686]

Here's the real question to all the conspiracy theorists...

Why?

Why would our government want to take down the WTC and Pentagon? What would we stand to gain from it? A good excuse to attack Afghanistan? Please.

We didn't land on the moon either.

Seriously though, Joe's right... Good debate. A few forums I've belonged to would have turned into all out flame wars three postings in.

[FroSSty]

I don't base all of my opinions just on that movie. What I did was use the video to bring up questions. Then I went searching for the evidence. Its all online if you google it. Later I will post some videos showing MOLTEN steel pouring out of the building. You don't have to be a chemist to know it takes more than just jet fuel and carpet etc to come up with enough heat to completely melt high strength steel. Look at the photos of some of the main building support beams that were sheared, not bent, in half. How is it that the buildings came straight down? That would mean that every single support beam folded at the exact same time. If it was air making the window blow, why did only select few windows blow out? Why didn't the air go down the elevator shafts like they said the jet fuel fireball did. Why didn't that same explosion blow out all of the windows? What about the buildings on the ground that didn't fall. They were smaller/shorter but the were built the same. why did they stand and 7 fall? They obviously sustained more damage than 7. Did they actually "pull" that building? If so how did they do that so fast? Why was there an unprecidented evacuation and power shutdown only days befor 9/11? Why were there bomb sniffing dogs/security staff doing 12 hour shifts less than a week prior and then suddenly taken off duty days beforehand? Is it a coincidence that the presidents brother headed the security detail?

Why did the witnesses all see different planes hit the pentagon. How did the plane blow through a handful of light poles and not sheer the wings off?(as they did on ex pres bushes plane a little before 9/11) How did the plane hit the pentagon without touching the lawn? You can clearly see the grass is still groomed. how did the landing gear make a perfect circle hole and then disintegrate before going through said hole? What were those plane parts that were found? Why didn't they find any parts to the engines? You are telling me that somehow, the wings folded up nicely enough to fit in the circle hole in the pentagon?

Just google some questions...
http://nomoregames.net/index.php?pag...=we_have_holes

There are more people that are unsure about this than you all think. I could understand if it was 1% or less of the population, but I am willing to bet that there are at least 25%(of our total population) of us nutcases out there. And we are the group who are growing. We get more and more sheeple to ask questions everyday. I don't care if you believe anything said by myself or the movie or anything else found on the net. But if I could get you to question just one thing about this whole issue...maybe you will understand where I am coming from.

If you think the feds are all on your side, you have a short memory. remember ruby ridge? Waco? Katrina? The weapons of md in Iraq? You do know that WE put Saddam in power in Iraq, right? He was our puppet. Where did he get his weapons/money that killed so many in that area? Where did he get his wmd's? Ask Donald Rumsfeld for the receipts.
Did you know that Osama was an asset to us too? Was he in an american funded hospital near the time of 9/11 as told?

I am NOT a liberal Democrat. I am NOT a republican. I am someone in between that isn't liking where this country is heading. Do I believe that the government is directly responsible to 9/11? Maybe not directly but there is certainly a cover-up involved in one way or another. I hope you can go through the rest of life not asking questions and always looking towards the government for answers to everything without any problems. That is your business. It will be us "nut cases" who are determined to root out the evils. You are the same people that were calling Thomas Jefferson, Sam Adams, John hancock etc, nutcases because they wanted to be independent of there over powered government. Now we call them Patriots. So be it. If you want to, follow the sheeple, you will be the governments best little citizen. Maybe they will put you up for citizen of the year award.

-Admitted "nut case"

p.s. I don't expect you to answer any of these questions. Just read them and ask them to yourself. There are plenty more that are unanswered by our govn...

[FroSSty]

Better question: Why am I wasting my time arguing with gnat-brains?

I am usually very impressed by your level of knowledge.(although you do seem to resort to personal attacks) I was reading through the thread for your post and was utterly disappointed by what I read. I don't think anyone was arguing with you at all. Is questioning a major situation that seems to be full of holes, as told by our government, a time waster? Finally, can a human being actually have gnat-brains? If so, how?

[Jeff_in_Atl]

http://newsmax.com/insidecover/castr.../11/31857.html
Got to feel good to be on the same side as Fidel Castro.
(No, I am not reading this thread. Since it was continuing I wanted to post this.)

[Joe 1320]

p.s. I don't expect you to answer any of these questions. Just read them and ask them to yourself. There are plenty more that are unanswered by our govn...

Ummm most of those questions were already addressed. It just seriously sounds like you don't want to acknowledge them. Maybe I'm missing something?

I don't think I am missing anything, I think the movie and the theory is missing something huge...........the slightest bit of EVIDENCE to support their theory. All they do is question and accuse, there is no EVIDENCE and no explaination of the lack of evidence. A classic paradox of profless claims.

[sneitzel]

How is it that the buildings came straight down? If it was air making the window blow, why did only select few windows blow out? Why didn't the air go down the elevator shafts like they said the jet fuel fireball did? Why didn't that same explosion blow out all of the windows? What about the buildings on the ground that didn't fall? Why did they stand and 7 fall?

How did the plane blow through a handful of light poles and not sheer the wings off? How did the plane hit the pentagon without touching the lawn? How did the landing gear make a perfect circle hole and then disintegrate before going through said hole?

I will answer your questions with a question. Why is it that a tornado can pass between 2 houses and rip one of them off its foundation while leaving the other virtually untouched?

Because...

Sometimes we just cannot accurately predict the outcome of a situation.

[FroSSty]

a few vids that I quick found...


Analysis of WTC collapse
http://www.metacafe.com/watch/338163..._wtc_collapse/

Demolition freefall speed
http://www.metacafe.com/watch/625231...ries_freefall/

Path of least resistance?
http://www.metacafe.com/watch/621343...ing_collapses/

Thermate-molten metal
http://www.metacafe.com/watch/338210...tc_demolition/

[FroSSty]

Sometimes we just cannot accurately predict the outcome of a situation.

It isn't about prediction anymore. The proof is in the pudding...

[FroSSty]

Ummm most of those questions were already addressed. It just seriously sounds like you don't want to acknowledge them. Maybe I'm missing something?

Not at all. It is easier to believe that extremists were responsible for the attacks. MUCH easier... The answers that are/were given do not make any sense. It is hard to believe bs...